# What's the deal with women only gyms? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 15, 2015, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575 "2015-06-15T12:57:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/101 "2015-06-19T08:58:57Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > There aren’t a lot, to be sure. Which is probably due to there not being a whole lot of demand for them. Whereas there is enough of a demand for women-only gyms to sustain a number of franchises in several countries. There are very good reasons for this, even if some folk don’t understand or accept them. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/102 "2015-06-19T11:41:55Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Pretty unlikely since she’s in Spain. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/103 "2015-06-19T12:20:07Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Cite? I’m pretty sure she’s from somewhere on the Iberian Peninsula. Either Spain or Portugal. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/104 "2015-06-19T12:29:25Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > I’m not quite sure that you actually do get it. Change that last part to “women objectify and hit on guys, but with less than 1/10 the intensity, and less than 1% as often,” and you might be getting close. There is a significant difference. Huge, actually. And when it happens, its even less frequently that the power/size difference comes into play. Men don’t get hit on by women and do the mental calculation of “if he follows me to my car, could he overpower me?” When a man gets hit on by a woman, he doesn’t often see any threat. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/105 "2015-06-19T17:30:01Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > And women and men never, ever, find a way to get together, or get away from their parents, and chaperones, because young people so enjoy the constant supervision. 🙂 In a world (upper class late Victorian, early Edwardian America) in which the single most important determining factor in a woman’s life was making a good marriage which was conditional on the appearance of pre-marital virginity, young women like Eleanor may not have enjoyed the constant supervision, but they rarely were going to rebel against it. Far too much was at stake. However, in one aspect it was easier for Eleanor Roosevelt to be slightly less guarded with the men she encountered. Her family was rich and powerful. Any inappropriate behavior by men beneath her social status would have resulted in swift and highly vindictive punishment for the men. Ordinary men (white or minority) did not insult upper class women and get away with it. So no doubt the protection of her much higher social status affected her behavior. Using Eleanor Roosevelt, a woman of extraordinary power and privilege, as an example of how current women should be able to ward off male brutality is deplorably laughable. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/106 "2015-06-20T00:10:41Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Fortunately, I don’t know anything about you personally. Is there any possibility that you’re just not very likable, or that people don’t actually care what happens to you? Can you think of any reason why a stranger would risk life, or limb, for your defense? > > When these incidents occur, do you called the police? Did you report these incidents to the local transit authority? Have you considered carrying, and using, pepper spray? Taking a self-defense class? Commuting with friends? Because blaming the victim is always appropriate. :rolleyes: Did you forget were we discussing the viability (or lack thereof) of expecting help from bystanders as a first line of defense? (Or really… as ANY part of a defense strategy?) We’re not discussing my reaction, we’re discussing the reaction of people in a position to – how did you put it? “test out their pumped muscles on some asshole who’s molesting women.” I’m not sure why you keep digging this hole. Real life experience proves you wrong. The more you argue, the less it appears you have a sound grip on reality. You’re not convincing US – those with personal real life experience – that you’re right, you’re convincing us that perhaps you are blinded by your privilege to near-delusional levels. So who are you trying to convince? Perhaps you should listen more than you speak on topics you have no personal experience with. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/107 "2015-06-20T00:30:30Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > You think people should speak up? > > Fine, here we go: > > **doorhinge** , your mansplaining is offensive, demeaning, and condescending. Stop it. > [@Aangelica](#): > > You forgot “part of the problem” 🙂 …and “reinforces your own misogynistic attitudes that actively undermine whatever allyship you think you can lay claim to.” WRT Eleanor Roosevelt – we’re not talking about “feeling inferior” either. We’re talking about being _treated_ as though we are inferior. By those who see fit to assault us. By those who tell us “well jee, maybe it’s YOUR fault no one helped.” (You know, like you did.) By those who refuse to offer help even when it’s in their job description (police, transit employees). I am well aware that I’m not inferior, but that didn’t stop YOU from telling me I was, did it? ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/108 "2015-06-20T00:45:41Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I am skeptical ogling and harassment is commonplace. I’ve been working out at the base gym for many years, and have _never once_ seen anything that even remotely looks like ogling and harassment. > > I think overactive imaginations are at play here. Education: [http://www.robot-hugs.com/harassment/](http://www.robot-hugs.com/harassment/) > [@](#): > > Remembering that the basis for harassment of women in public spaces is around the ownership of space by men, and consequently control of the women in those spaces… > > If you’re a guy and you’re with a woman…you are less likely to witness casual harassment towards that women. > > To the person who feels like he needs to control women by harassing them, that woman with you _is already controlled. She is yours. They generally wouldn’t challenge you as a man by harassing her._ Add to this the subtlety of a lot of harassment (you wouldn’t be able to see it from a distance of even a few feet and/or the harasser positions himself intentionally to block the view of bystanders), and the fact that you probably don’t know what a lot of harassment even looks like, I absolutely believe you haven’t seen it. You wouldn’t even when it’s right in front of you. Don’t make the mistake of conflating your privileged blindness with “y’all are imagining it” though. > [@even\_sven](#): > > I’ve never seen Norway. Pretty sure people are just making it up. WIN. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2015, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/109 "2015-06-20T01:04:35Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Bwahahahaha. You’re a hoot. You must be a Democrat. In your mind, you’ve somehow convinced yourself that, even though we’ve never met, I should be blamed for your problems. :rolleyes: We’ve never met either, and yet YOU’RE convinced I should be blamed for the bystander effect. Because somehow other people who have _also_ never met me dislike me SO MUCH that they can’t tolerate the thought of helping me. How they managed to form such an opinion without meeting me, I suppose is left as an exercise for the reader? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/110 "2015-06-23T15:15:17Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > Because blaming the victim is always appropriate. :rolleyes: > > Did you forget were we discussing the viability (or lack thereof) of expecting help from bystanders as a first line of defense? (Or really… as ANY part of a defense strategy?) We’re not discussing my reaction, we’re discussing the reaction of people in a position to – how did you put it? “test out their pumped muscles on some asshole who’s molesting women.” (post shortened) I didn’t blame the victim. I asked whether there was anything that the public might find disagreeable about you. Less face it, some people are more likable than others. Do men and women still stand up for others who are being harassed and abused? Yes, there are. It appears that you don’t know any. I wonder why. In case you have forgotten, this thread was started by a man. A man who had questions about “women only” gyms. There were no limitations as to who could, or could not, reply. Regardless of what you prefer. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/111 "2015-06-23T15:33:03Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I didn’t blame the victim. I asked whether there was anything that the public might find disagreeable about you. Less face it, some people are more likable than others. > > Do men and women still stand up for others who are being harassed and abused? Yes, there are. It appears that you don’t know any. I wonder why. Boy, it’s a good thing you’re not blaming the victim. I’d hate to see what \*that \*looks like. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/112 "2015-06-23T15:33:20Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > In a world (upper class late Victorian, early Edwardian America) in which the single most important determining factor in a woman’s life was making a good marriage which was conditional on the appearance of pre-marital virginity, young women like Eleanor may not have enjoyed the constant supervision, but they rarely were going to rebel against it. Far too much was at stake. However, in one aspect it was easier for Eleanor Roosevelt to be slightly less guarded with the men she encountered. Her family was rich and powerful. Any inappropriate behavior by men beneath her social status would have resulted in swift and highly vindictive punishment for the men. Ordinary men (white or minority) did not insult upper class women and get away with it. So no doubt the protection of her much higher social status affected her behavior. Using Eleanor Roosevelt, a woman of extraordinary power and privilege, as an example of how current women should be able to ward off male brutality is deplorably laughable. Anna Eleanor Roosevelt grew up in a time before everyone got a trophy for participation. If she wanted to make something happen, she made it happen. She’s said to have been a shy child. Her parents had both died by the time she was 10 years old. She was sent to school in England as a teenager, and married at 21. All of which influenced her later life. Whether Eleanor was born with a strength of character, or she developed strength of character thru dealing with her peers, adults, and society’s norms, Eleanor became a force to be reckoned with. Eleanor managed to do what needed to be done. Eleanor found a way to solve problems. AFAIC, Eleanor Roosevelt is a role model. The world would be a better place to live if there were more Eleanor Roosevelts. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/113 "2015-06-23T17:38:45Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Anna Eleanor Roosevelt grew up in a time before everyone got a trophy for participation. If she wanted to make something happen, she made it happen. Anna Eleanor Roosevelt also grew up in a time when she got an automatic and rather substantial advantage (a trophy if you will) for being born into a wealthy, socially prominent family. If she wanted to make something happen, she had the financial resources, social clout and power to make it happen. She was not the average woman of her era or even this era in terms of the status and advantages she had. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/114 "2015-06-23T18:56:26Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > I didn’t blame the victim. I asked whether there was anything that the public might find disagreeable about you. Less face it, some people are more likable than others. > > Do men and women still stand up for others who are being harassed and abused? Yes, there are. It appears that you don’t know any. I wonder why. So you’re not blaming her, but it’s still her fault? ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/115 "2015-06-23T19:51:27Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > So you’re not blaming her, but it’s still her fault? No, it’s not her fault. It’s not my fault, either. But people sure seem quick to place blame. If you wish to discover how best to fix a problem, it’s best to first gather all relative information. Sometimes, you could even ask the opinion of both sexes. Especially on an open forum. ---
**Author:** ![BrianJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/54ee81/32.png) [@BrianJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrianJ)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/116 "2015-06-24T00:13:52Z")
“All men” are being banned from a gym because of what a few specific men might do, even if many men who frequent gyms know how to behave around women cutomers just fine. Sounds like some are unfairly being tarred with the same brush, or perhaps being found guilty until proven innocent. Blame though? the blame should be on the jerks who can’t behave themselves, not the rest of us (men or women). ---
**Author:** ![Crawlspace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Crawlspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crawlspace)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/117 "2015-06-24T03:32:28Z")
> [@Q.N.Jones](#): > > There was all manner of inappropriate behavior by men. Some were oglers. Some were exhibitionists–there was one guy who would wear shorts so loose that they would fall down off his butt when he did stretches…always in front of a row of women on exercise machines. Another guy would wear tight, short white shorts with no underwear and do stretches in front of the whole room, showing off his goodies for an hour or so. Funny, it sounds to me like you were every bit as guilty of ogling those men as the male oglers you’re criticizing. > [@Kaio](#): > > Education: [http://www.robot-hugs.com/harassment/](http://www.robot-hugs.com/harassment/) Do you have any data to back up this cartoon? I see this stance trotted out often and I’m interested to know if there’s any objective proof behind it or if it’s just an exercise in critical thought. Cause frankly it reads like what a radical feminist with too much time on her hands would come up with if asked why some men make rude comments. > [@BrianJ](#): > > “All men” are being banned from a gym because of what a few specific men might do, even if many men who frequent gyms know how to behave around women cutomers just fine. > > Sounds like some are unfairly being tarred with the same brush, or perhaps being found guilty until proven innocent. > > Blame though? the blame should be on the jerks who can’t behave themselves, not the rest of us (men or women). This. The desire for people to be judged on their actions, abilities and character and not their gender is part of the reason why those misogynistic shits at the National Organization for Women are the most noteworthy **opponents** of women only gyms. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/118 "2015-06-24T04:21:13Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > (post shortened) > > I didn’t blame the victim. I asked whether there was anything that the public might find disagreeable about you. Are you even listening to yourself? > [@](#): > > Do men and women still stand up for others who are being harassed and abused? Yes, there are. It appears that you don’t know any. I wonder why. I have no idea what _knowing_ people who stand up for others (I do) has to do with having an expectation that _total strangers_ will behave in the same way. > [@](#): > > In case you have forgotten, this thread was started by a man. A man who had questions about “women only” gyms. There were no limitations as to who could, or could not, reply. Regardless of what you prefer. And now you’re putting words in my mouth. Congratulations, I think you’ve reached the ultimate peak of mansplaining. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/119 "2015-06-24T04:39:41Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > …And now you’re putting words in my mouth. Congratulations, I think you’ve reached the ultimate peak of mansplaining. Congratulations. You’ve decided to make up words to explain your position. Mansplaining hasn’t even made the Oxford Dictionary yet. Wow. That must be one of those dog-whistle words I’ve heard so much about. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/120 "2015-06-24T04:51:12Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Congratulations. You’ve decided to make up words to explain your position. Mansplaining hasn’t even made the Oxford Dictionary yet. Wow. That must be one of those dog-whistle words I’ve heard so much about. Oxford Dictionary-[Mansplain](http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/mansplain) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575.md?page=7)