# What's the difference between a ship and a boat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 1, 2004, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-a-ship-and-a-boat/253047 "2004-07-01T14:10:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-a-ship-and-a-boat/253047/1 "2004-07-01T14:10:58Z")
So I was watching a horror movie that takes place on a submarine (_Below_ or something like that), and the crew of a submarine takes on some people who had been stranded in the ocean. One of the stranded people makes mention of being on the captain’s “ship” and the captain quickly corrects her that she is on a “boat”. I’ve also seen the reverse, where someone is on a destroyer or something, calls it a “boat” and is corrected and told they are on a “ship”. My dad was in the Navy (on a submarine in fact) and I asked him, but he doesn’t remember the difference exactly since he hasn’t needed to know for about 30 years. So can my fellow Dopers help me out? What makes a boat and a ship different? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-a-ship-and-a-boat/253047/2 "2004-07-01T14:16:05Z")
Ships carry boats. Except for submarines. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-a-ship-and-a-boat/253047/3 "2004-07-01T14:24:28Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Ships carry boats. Except for submarines. Not quite true. The giant ore freighters of the Great Lakes are some of the largest water craft ever designed, & they are all called boats. Ships are salt water craft. ---
**Author:** ![Ponster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponster/32/17081_2.png) [@Ponster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponster)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-a-ship-and-a-boat/253047/4 "2004-07-01T14:26:10Z")
Personally I believe a _ship_ to be a large seagoing vessel while _boat_ means a smaller vessel not used on the open sea. ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-a-ship-and-a-boat/253047/5 "2004-07-01T14:31:01Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > Ships are salt water craft. Aren’t subs used in salt water and (for **Ponster** ) on the open sea? Maybe a better question would be how does the Navy differentiate between ships and boats? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-a-ship-and-a-boat/253047/6 "2004-07-01T14:36:41Z")
From [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com): ship: A vessel of considerable size for deep-water navigation. A sailing vessel having three or more square-rigged masts. An aircraft or spacecraft. boat: A relatively small, usually open craft of a size that might be carried aboard a \*\*ship. \*\* :dubious: An inland vessel of any size. A **ship** or submarine. :dubious: :smack: ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-a-ship-and-a-boat/253047/7 "2004-07-01T14:37:43Z")
For submariners, ships are _targets_. Submarines are boats. ---
**Author:** ![Ponster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponster/32/17081_2.png) [@Ponster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponster)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-a-ship-and-a-boat/253047/8 "2004-07-01T14:39:37Z")
> [@Crunchy Frog](#): > > Aren’t subs used in salt water and (for **Ponster** ) on the open sea? > > Maybe a better question would be how does the Navy differentiate between ships and boats? Hmm, re-reading the OP I realise that we’re talking about subs here. With no knowledge whatsoever I’d say that what I and **Ethilrist** is correct as regards the English language but doesn’t refer to whatever the US navy (or any other) call their subs. ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-a-ship-and-a-boat/253047/9 "2004-07-01T14:52:18Z")
It seems **Ethlirist** may have got the answer on the first try, with submarines being an exception (possibly for the reason **Elvis** gave). I’ll have to see if this refreshes my dad’s memory. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-a-ship-and-a-boat/253047/10 "2004-07-01T15:50:51Z")
I don’t understand **Ethilrist** ’s exception. Ships carry boats - true. Submarines don’t carry boats, which makes them boats, not ships. The OP said that submariners regard their vessels as boats. No exception needed. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-a-ship-and-a-boat/253047/11 "2004-07-01T16:18:43Z")
Submarines carry small boats for people to use to get to shore when a dock isn’t available. Submarines are also not carried by ships except in James Bond movies, which is the other half of the exception. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-a-ship-and-a-boat/253047/12 "2004-07-01T16:28:51Z")
You mean like an inflatable rubber raft? By that measure, even the smallest dinghy could be a ship. What happens if you remove all the lifeboats from the Pacific Princess? Does the ship then suddenly become a boat? I understood the rule (more like a guideline, really) to mean that a ship is a water-going vessel large enough to carry other water-going vessels. Boats are small enough to be carried by other vessels. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-a-ship-and-a-boat/253047/13 "2004-07-01T16:33:20Z")
The way I was told - growing up near a naval submarine base and then working for the commanding officer of that base - was that boats go under the water. Ships stay on top of the water. Except for “very small ‘ships’” such as PT boats. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-a-ship-and-a-boat/253047/14 "2004-07-01T16:35:07Z")
The submarine is a variant of an earlier craft, the torpedo boat. The terminology carried over when these boats were made submersible. ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-a-ship-and-a-boat/253047/15 "2004-07-01T16:37:23Z")
> [@Terminus Est](#): > > I don’t understand **Ethilrist** ’s exception. Ships carry boats - true. Submarines don’t carry boats, which makes them boats, not ships. The OP said that submariners regard their vessels as boats. No exception needed. The exception seemed to be in the dictionary’s definition, but it may have just been poor reading comprehension on my part. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2004, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-a-ship-and-a-boat/253047/16 "2004-07-01T23:50:34Z")
> [@](#): > > The submarine is a variant of an earlier craft, the torpedo boat. The terminology carried over when these boats were made submersible. Not exactly, although you have the correct period for the development of the nomenclature. Submarines were always designed as submarines. Torpedo boats were always developed as small, fast, attack craft. They did share the use of the torpedo as their primary weapon, but they developed in very different ways. Torpedo boats were developed specifically to take advantage of Mr. Whitehead’s invention of the self-propelled torpedo. Submarines had been in (rather unsuccessful) development for over ninety years prior to that invention, taking full advantage of the Whitehead torpedo’s invention, but not being originally envisioned to use it. However, the earliest submarines were called boats, simply because they were so small. (Size has always been a factor in determining which vessels will be called boats or ships–although the criteria changes with a certain frequency, following the normal development of _language_ (meaning it is rarely supported by logic).) Even as late as WWII, there were only two or three submarines in the world that would have qualified for the term _ship_ based upon their tonnage. By the time the U.S. began building boomers that were, indeed, much larger than destroyers (or even some cruisers), the term _boat_ had been firmly attached to submarines and it is now a point of honor among submariners to decline to decribe their vessels as _ships_. (Remember, logic has little to do with choices in language.) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-a-ship-and-a-boat/253047/17 "2004-07-02T00:19:09Z")
Regarding the OP, I have not yet ben able to find a current tonnage cut-off point for the U. S. Navy for ships and boats, but one can get a general idea by looking at their names. While all vessels are numbers, boats are _only_ numbered while ships have names. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-a-ship-and-a-boat/253047/18 "2004-07-02T00:21:34Z")
_all vessels are numbers_ s/b “all vessels are numbered,” of course. However, that does point out the Navy approach to the issue: until 1931, all submarines in the U. S. Navy were given only numbers, not names. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-a-ship-and-a-boat/253047/19 "2004-07-02T01:05:28Z")
I can’t believe we got to message #19 and nobody remembered that the [Master had spoken](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_256.html) on this topic. (Unfortunately, his column is somewhat less comprehensive than what has already been said here, and he offered no greater authorities, either. Then he goes off on a completely unrelated subject. Not one of his better days.) One point I’ve heard is that a vessel of any size is a “ship” to its skipper. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2004, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-a-ship-and-a-boat/253047/20 "2004-07-02T01:15:41Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > One point I’ve heard is that a vessel of any size is a “ship” to its skipper. Not to a submarine captain. None would ever in a million years call his boat a “ship.” It’s a boat. No matter what the dictionary says.