# What's the difference between bail and bond? Also, crime definitions. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 27, 2006, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-bail-and-bond-also-crime-definitions/346352 "2006-02-27T19:43:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-bail-and-bond-also-crime-definitions/346352/1 "2006-02-27T19:43:32Z")
Is there a difference? If the wording is, “Both women were held on $50,000 bond” - does that mean they have to provide that amount as collateral or only 10 percent? Also, if the charges read as: “She was charged with first-degree robbery, second-degree larceny, sixth-degree larceny and assault on a victim more than 60 years old,” what do the different degrees of larceny mean? Does that have to do with the value of the items stolen? And, I was told that the robbery is robbery because the perpetrator physically touched the victim in order to get her possessions - is this correct? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-bail-and-bond-also-crime-definitions/346352/2 "2006-02-27T21:52:50Z")
> [@missbunny](#): > > Is there a difference? If the wording is, “Both women were held on $50,000 bond” - does that mean they have to provide that amount as collateral or only 10 percent? Bail or Bond are about the same thing in the US. They do have to provide that full amount to the Court. Or someone does it for them. That’s probably what you’re thinking of – the standard bail bondsman requires 10% of the bail from the person, then he pays the full 100% to the Court. When you show up for your court case, he gets his money back from the court. You don’t get anything back from him, so it has cost you 10% of that amount to borrow from him. Presumably, you could also borrow it from a bank, probably at a cheaper rate of interest. But banks aren’t available late at night, don’t process loans that fast, and don’t deliver the money to you at the jail. And most banks would want some other collateral to make a bail loan. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-bail-and-bond-also-crime-definitions/346352/3 "2006-02-27T22:04:17Z")
A bond, whether you’re talking investments or bail, is a negotiable instrument promising to pay a given sum subject to appropriate conditions, and backed by some manner of securitization. A bail bond is a bond put up as bail; it’s that simple. The bail bondsman has, say, a CD in the bank earning him interest. In exchange for 10% of the bail, he places a bond with the jailor guaranteeing the appearance of the person being released on bail, securing it with evidence of the CD. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-bail-and-bond-also-crime-definitions/346352/4 "2006-02-27T22:46:49Z")
What’s the context? Is this something you’re reading in the blotter or a list of charges that the cops gave you when they let you out of stir? –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-bail-and-bond-also-crime-definitions/346352/5 "2006-02-27T22:47:32Z")
“Held on $50,000 bail”? Wouldn’t “Released on $50,000 bail” be more accurate? Isn’t bail the security you put up before your trial, indicating that you will show up for your trial, and they don’t have to keep you in jail? Nobody actually has to pay it, right? :: rereads post #2 twice :: So, if you have the $50,000, you give it to the court, go away, and when you return for your trial, they givve it back. If you have $5,000, you give it to the bail bondsman, who keeps it as a fee for lending _his_ $50,000 to the court. And if you don’t have $5,000, you go to jail until the trial? I have no idea whether they do this in Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-bail-and-bond-also-crime-definitions/346352/6 "2006-02-27T23:02:25Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > I have no idea whether they do this in Canada. We have bail in Canada, yes; but not bail bondsmen. You must either put up the full amount yourself, or have a friend or relative do it for you. But there is no commercial bondsman willing to put up his $50,000 in exchange for your $5000, as you see on American TV. ---
**Author:** ![FatBaldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecd19e/32.png) [@FatBaldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FatBaldGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-bail-and-bond-also-crime-definitions/346352/7 "2006-02-27T23:03:30Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > “Held on $50,000 bail”? Wouldn’t “Released on $50,000 bail” be more accurate? Depends on whether or not the defendant ponied up the $50,000 (or arranged for a bail bondsman, as noted above). If they are able to come up with the required amount, they are “released on $50,000 bail.” If they can’t or don’t come up with the bail, they stay in jail until trial and are “held on $50,000 bail.” ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-bail-and-bond-also-crime-definitions/346352/8 "2006-02-27T23:30:43Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > What’s the context? Is this something you’re reading in the blotter or a list of charges that the cops gave you when they let you out of stir? My mother was assaulted and mugged last month and the police caught the perpetrators last week. My mom didn’t get too many details yet from the police on how they were caught, but they had told her that the bail/bond/whatever would be high enough that they likely could not post it. (She was afraid they’d get a low bail/bond and then be able to get out of jail, and since they have her address, come after her.) To me, $50,000 or 10% of that is not a lot of money and would be easy to post; but these were lowlife crackheads, so I am hoping it would be difficult to come up with even $5,000. The wording is exactly how it was printed in the paper, which is why I wasn’t sure if “bail” and “bond” were the same, as I thought they would have used the word “bail.” Or both, but not just “bond.” I do plan to ask the police for more details but haven’t been able to yet. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-bail-and-bond-also-crime-definitions/346352/9 "2006-02-27T23:53:25Z")
Well, a smart person doesn’t get out of jail on a bond and then go commit another crime, but **Dog the Bounty Hunter** constantly reminds us that criminals are dumb, dumb, dumb. I’m very sorry about your mother and hope the police can assure her of her safety. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-bail-and-bond-also-crime-definitions/346352/10 "2006-02-28T00:02:03Z")
Thank you. Yes, criminals are dumb. They think somehow they aren’t but they always are. Sooner or later, their dumbness comes to haunt them. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-bail-and-bond-also-crime-definitions/346352/11 "2006-02-28T00:20:11Z")
Some courts will set a “cash only” bail or offer a bond amount and a “cash alternative.” Some states don’t allow cash only bail; other states have prohibitted commercial bail bonds. For instance Wisconsin prohibits sureties from receiving compensation. > **[Bail](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bail_bond)** > > Bail is a set of pre-trial restrictions that are imposed on a suspect to ensure that they will not hamper the judicial process. Bail is the conditional release of a defendant with the promise to appear in court when required. > In some countries, especially the United States and Canada, bail usually implies a bail bond, a deposit of money or some form of property to the court by the suspect in return for the release from pre-trial detention. If the suspect does not return to court, the bail is In... > **[Bail bondsman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bail_bondsman)** > > A bail bondsman, bail bond agent or bond dealer is any person, agency or corporation that will act as a surety and pledge money or property as bail for the appearance of a defendant in court. > Bail bond agents are almost exclusively found in the United States and its former territory of the Philippines. In most other countries, the practice of bail bonding is illegal. The industry is represented by various trade associations, with the Professional Bail Agents of the United States and the American... [http://www.new-york-arraignments.com/bail.htm#Bail%20is](http://www.new-york-arraignments.com/bail.htm#Bail%20is) [http://www.legal-aid.org/SupportDocumentIndex.htm?docid=104&catid=34:](http://www.legal-aid.org/SupportDocumentIndex.htm?docid=104&catid=34:) > [@](#): > > Often the bond amount will be higher than the cash alternative, because courts are aware that bond companies generally accept well less than 100% of the face value of the bond as security. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-bail-and-bond-also-crime-definitions/346352/12 "2006-02-28T00:25:05Z")
> [@missbunny](#): > > what do the different degrees of larceny mean? Does that have to do with the value of the items stolen? And, I was told that the robbery is robbery because the perpetrator physically touched the victim in order to get her possessions - is this correct? What state are you in? ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-bail-and-bond-also-crime-definitions/346352/13 "2006-02-28T00:28:37Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Bail or Bond are about the same thing in the US. They do have to provide that full amount to the Court. Or someone does it for them. That’s probably what you’re thinking of – the standard bail bondsman requires 10% of the bail from the person, then he pays the full 100% to the Court. When you show up for your court case, he gets his money back from the court. You don’t get anything back from him, so it has cost you 10% of that amount to borrow from him. Presumably, you could also borrow it from a bank, probably at a cheaper rate of interest. But banks aren’t available late at night, don’t process loans that fast, and don’t deliver the money to you at the jail. And most banks would want some other collateral to make a bail loan. Not quite. If you bail is 50,000 you can give the court 50K of cash or you can call a bailbondsman. The bailbondsman in exchange for a fee give the court a bond that promises your appearance in court. If you don’t show the bond is forefit and then the Bailbondsman must cough up the dough. No money goes to the court if you show up when you are supposed to. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-bail-and-bond-also-crime-definitions/346352/14 "2006-02-28T01:17:40Z")
> [@missbunny](#): > > “She was charged with first-degree robbery, second-degree larceny, sixth-degree larceny and assault on a victim more than 60 years old,” what do the different degrees of larceny mean? Does that have to do with the value of the items stolen? And, I was told that the robbery is robbery because the perpetrator physically touched the victim in order to get her possessions - is this correct? As **Gfactor** ’s question implies, it all varies according to the jurisdiction for all the classifications. Depending on local law, “robbery” may not necessarily require that perp actually laid hands upon the person – that’s where the “degrees” come up – but that indeed he obtained the goods though force or threat of force directly upon the person. Purse-snatchings, hold-ups, muggings, come under this heading. The traditional classification of “larceny” is between plain larceny and ‘grand’ larceny, based on the value _or nature_ of the goods or both. E.g. it may be that in State X it’s petty theft if the value is under $250, except that if it’s government property it’s grand larceny from the git-go and becomes _agravated_ grand larceny at the $250 mark. Within those, there may be then degrees based on further circumstances. Putting more than a half-dozen degrees into the “larceny” statute is probably a way of putting as many variations on the same general issue as they can under one single heading, to fine-tune the specifics. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-bail-and-bond-also-crime-definitions/346352/15 "2006-02-28T03:06:23Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > We have bail in Canada, yes; but not bail bondsmen. You must either put up the full amount yourself, or have a friend or relative do it for you. But there is no commercial bondsman willing to put up his $50,000 in exchange for your $5000, as you see on American TV. That’s because in Canada, putting up a bond for a fee is the criminal offence of [obstructing justice](http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-46/180934.html#Section-139) > [@](#): > > Obstructing justice > > **139.** (1) Every one who wilfully attempts in any manner to obstruct, pervert or defeat the course of justice in a judicial proceeding, > > (a) by indemnifying or agreeing to indemnify a surety, in any way and either in whole or in part, or > > (b) where he is a surety, by accepting or agreeing to accept a fee or any form of indemnity whether in whole or in part from or in respect of a person who is released or is to be released from custody, > > is guilty of > > (c) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years, or > > (d) an offence punishable on summary conviction. ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-bail-and-bond-also-crime-definitions/346352/16 "2006-02-28T04:30:58Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > “Held on $50,000 bail”? Wouldn’t “Released on $50,000 bail” be more accurate? The suspect isn’t released untill bail or bond is posted with the court. The bondsman get $5K i.e 10% of the bail to guarantee the appearance of the culprit in court. Sort of like an insurance policy. If the suspect skips the bondsman has to pay the court $50K so he is out $45K! OTOH the suspect can post the full $50K cash bond for himself and have it returned at trial. ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-bail-and-bond-also-crime-definitions/346352/17 "2006-02-28T13:55:16Z")
Ok lets say bail was 2 million. Would you have to actually hand over it in cash, or would some kind of promisary note or bank cheque be OK? ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-bail-and-bond-also-crime-definitions/346352/18 "2006-02-28T17:02:03Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > What state are you in? This happened in CT. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-bail-and-bond-also-crime-definitions/346352/19 "2006-02-28T18:13:30Z")
> [@missbunny](#): > > This happened in CT. > [@](#): > > Sec. 53a-123. Larceny in the second degree: Class C felony. (a) A person is guilty of larceny in the second degree when he commits larceny, as defined in section 53a-119, and: (1) The property consists of a motor vehicle, the value of which exceeds five thousand dollars, (2) the value of the property or service exceeds five thousand dollars, (3) the property, regardless of its nature or value, is taken from the person of another, (4) the property is obtained by defrauding a public community, and the value of such property is two thousand dollars or less, or (5) the property, regardless of its nature or value, is obtained by embezzlement, false pretenses or false promise and the victim of such larceny is sixty years of age or older or is blind or physically disabled, as defined in section 1-1f. [http://search.cga.state.ct.us/surs/chap952.htm#Sec53a-123.htm](http://search.cga.state.ct.us/surs/chap952.htm#Sec53a-123.htm) > [@](#): > > ``` > Sec. 53a-125b. Larceny in the sixth degree: Class C misdemeanor. (a) A person is guilty of larceny in the sixth degree when he commits larceny as defined in section 53a-119 and the value of the property or service is two hundred fifty dollars or less. > > ``` - Id. \* > [@](#): > > ``` > Sec. 53a-133. Robbery defined. A person commits robbery when, in the course of committing a larceny, he uses or threatens the immediate use of physical force upon another person for the purpose of: (1) Preventing or overcoming resistance to the taking of the property or to the retention thereof immediately after the taking; or (2) compelling the owner of such property or another person to deliver up the property or to engage in other conduct which aids in the commission of the larceny. > > ``` [http://search.cga.state.ct.us/surs/chap952.htm#Sec53a-133.htm](http://search.cga.state.ct.us/surs/chap952.htm#Sec53a-133.htm) ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-bail-and-bond-also-crime-definitions/346352/20 "2006-02-28T18:26:02Z")
Thanks Gfactor, that’s very helpful. I appreciate it!