# What's The Difference Between Capitalism And Free Enterprise? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 22, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-capitalism-and-free-enterprise/551094 "2010-08-22T20:43:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-capitalism-and-free-enterprise/551094/21 "2010-08-23T14:14:11Z")
[quote=“adhay, post:8, topic:551094”] > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > And here there IS a difference between small business and large business. When businesses become large enough to affect elections through donations, or large enough to affect policy through lobbying or otherwise influencing politicians, you get _crony capitalism_. Small businesses do not have this power, so you wind up with a situation where the large businesses make the rules, the government enforces them, and it’s all done to the benefit of the large businesses and to the detriment of small business. > > > > Crony Capitalism is the real problem. > > Crony Capitalism? Is there another kind? > > . There can be. If the electorate will vote into office members of the legislative and executive branch who will slow, and then reverse, the reach of government. Unfortunately, lately we seem to be racing headlong into the other direction. Companies spending money to lobby government do so in expectation of some return, or favor. If the government is powerless to grant them any special favors than the companies are wasting their money. The more power the government is allowed to exert over the choices of consumers, the more companies will flock to K street and attempt to manipulate that monopoly on legal means of force to their own advantage. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-capitalism-and-free-enterprise/551094/22 "2010-08-23T15:03:31Z")
The definitions of words are conventions rather than absolute facts. “Capitalism” seems to have vaguely negative connotations. “The American free enterprise system,” evokes nationalistic sentiments in most Americans. Otherwise I see no difference. In the United States it has always been pretty much the case that small businessmen were on their own while the owners of large corporations could buy business subsidies and other favors from the government with campaign contributions. ---
**Author:** ![qpw3141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/6bbea6/32.png) [@qpw3141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qpw3141)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-capitalism-and-free-enterprise/551094/23 "2010-08-23T16:05:34Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > “The American free enterprise system,” How does that differ from the free enterprise systems in other countries? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-capitalism-and-free-enterprise/551094/24 "2010-08-23T16:09:47Z")
Well, Free Enterprise is ‘market economy: an economy that relies chiefly on market forces to allocate goods and resources and to determine prices’, while Capitalism is defined as ‘an economic system based on private ownership of capital’. So, the two are related, and you could probably say that Free Enterprise is simply a subset of related ideas under the superset of Capitalism. Basically, you are trying to redefine the terms and then use your new definitions to make some obscure point that is, well, probably little understood by anyone except you. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-capitalism-and-free-enterprise/551094/25 "2010-08-23T17:35:36Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Enterprise stops being free when government gets into the mix. And here there IS a difference between small business and large business. When businesses become large enough to affect elections through donations, or large enough to affect policy through lobbying or otherwise influencing politicians, you get _crony capitalism_. Small businesses do not have this power, so you wind up with a situation where the large businesses make the rules, the government enforces them, and it’s all done to the benefit of the large businesses and to the detriment of small business. Sometimes it goes the other way, though. In Quebec are various laws that favour small retail businesses (who collectively exert political power and I suppose in aggregate could be considered “large business”), typically by putting restrictions on the operating hours and workforce sizes of large supermarkets, i.e. they can only have four cash registers operating from Friday evening to Sunday. Lately, the big stores have been sneaking around this by installing stations where the customer can scan his own groceries and pay an ATM-like machine. And the arms race continues… ---
**Author:** ![IdahoMauleMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/71c47a/32.png) [@IdahoMauleMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IdahoMauleMan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-capitalism-and-free-enterprise/551094/26 "2010-08-23T18:49:09Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > > > Enterprise stops being free when government gets into the mix. And here there IS a difference between small business and large business. When businesses become large enough to affect elections through donations, or large enough to affect policy through lobbying or otherwise influencing politicians, you get _crony capitalism_. Small businesses do not have this power, so you wind up with a situation where the large businesses make the rules, the government enforces them, and it’s all done to the benefit of the large businesses and to the detriment of small business. > > Sometimes it goes the other way, though. In Quebec are various laws that favour small retail businesses (who collectively exert political power and I suppose in aggregate could be considered “large business”), typically by putting restrictions on the operating hours and workforce sizes of large supermarkets, i.e. they can only have four cash registers operating from Friday evening to Sunday. Lately, the big stores have been sneaking around this by installing stations where the customer can scan his own groceries and pay an ATM-like machine. And the arms race continues… Something similar went on for years in Japanese retail, as well as rice-farming. At least, that was the case when I studied the issue about 10-15 years ago. The same general principle holds, however. Whether influence eminates from one, large player or an aggregation of smaller players, the incumbents are attempting to distort the rules of the free market to protect them from competition. That’s why I’m always immediately suspicious of any business ‘support’ for regulation - invariably, they are hopping on board the regulatory train to create barriers to entry for someone else. Sorry to mix metaphors. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-capitalism-and-free-enterprise/551094/27 "2010-08-24T11:30:12Z")
[quote=“New\_Deal\_Democrat, post:19, topic:551007”] > [@Why Is The USA Exceptional Among First World Countries?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-is-the-usa-exceptional-among-first-world-countries/551007/1): > > Compared with Europe and the rest of the world’s arms exporters, the USA _is_ exceptional. > > Unburdened of all that socialist bullshit that our allies abroad have to fund, healthcare, etc, we rock. Our 5% of the world’s population consumes 35% of the world’s resources and we have the SUVs to prove it. Envy of the world. > [@](#): > > We are not the envy of Western Europe or the British Commonwealth. Nearly everyone who migrates here comes from the Third World. I’m afraid that I was overly ironic in the OP. ETA. Would scare quotes on “Envy” have been helpful? > [@](#): > > The United States is a great country to be rich in. Otherwise, I cannot think of anything that is exceptionally desirable about this country. In many respects people in other first world countries live better than we do. They have less poverty, lower crime rates, and better health. Communist China out competes us economically while buying up our national debt. > > In the nineteenth century and early twentieth century the United States took the lead in extending public education to everyone and in extending voting rights to populations that could not yet vote in Europe. The illusion of ‘democracy’. Does anyone there have any more than that. Does anyone on the fucking planet? After the War, Europe was largely rebuilt in the interest American Capital, paid for by the US taxpayer. To speed up the process, concessions to public welfare there were in order. The US, otoh, was untouched and booming. Time to start dismantling Glass-Steagal and expand the consumer base by giving Blacks the vote and letting women into boardrooms. Everyone on board and in debt? Cars and TVs in place? Time to shake off these pesky regulations on “free enterprise.” Fuck me running. > [@](#): > > Since the end of the Second World War we have lagged behind in public health care, guaranteed vacations, pensions, and so on. You don’t say? I guess it’s because the American People seem to prefer guns to butter in the polling place. Of course, It’s seldom put in those terms in our Corporate Media. Truly free enterprise deals in trade. Capital deals in arms. I think, with your help, I just answered my OP. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Facts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@The\_Facts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Facts)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-capitalism-and-free-enterprise/551094/28 "2010-08-24T11:50:02Z")
“Capitalism” is the opposite of freedom. It’s rule by corporate thugs. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-capitalism-and-free-enterprise/551094/29 "2010-08-24T12:32:21Z")
What **xtisme** and **New Deal Democrat** said. They are both descriptors of aspects of market-price-based economies, and depending on context they are used interchangeably (and sometimes sloppily) or as subsets of one another. NDC’s use of the phrase “the \*American \*free enterprise system” was just an example of how by adding that denomination to it, it is tranformed for PR/marketing/propaganda purposes into some sort of noble ideal, so people think they may attack the one but must support the other, with no dissonance. It has been pointed out correctly that in the existing system, sectors of capital use their power in order to distort the market in their favor (or to the detriment of others). That by itself does not make the concepts intrinsecally invalid, but it is a factor in why most developed nations have a greater or lesser degree of a “mixed economy” - neither fully socialized nor free-for-all _laissez faire._ Of course, those who just want to say: “Resolved: Wherefore Capitalism is Bad, therefore, Capitalism is Bad” are welcomed to it but that’s been so done… ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2010, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-capitalism-and-free-enterprise/551094/30 "2010-08-24T12:38:45Z")
> [@The\_Facts](#): > > “Capitalism” is the opposite of freedom. It’s rule by corporate thugs. Appropriate user name. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-capitalism-and-free-enterprise/551094/31 "2010-08-26T20:37:27Z")
> [@qpw3141](#): > > > [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > > > “The American free enterprise system,” > > How does that differ from the free enterprise systems in other countries? One never hears of the Canadian free enterprise system, just as one never heard of the Parliamentary Committee on UnCanadian Activities. In the United States there is less regulation of private industry than in other affluent democracies, lower taxes, and less of a safety net. We do not have laissez faire capitalism, but we have a closer approximation of it than exists in other countries. That is what is meant by the American free enterprise system. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-capitalism-and-free-enterprise/551094/32 "2010-08-27T00:44:26Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > > [@qpw3141](#): > > > > How does that differ from the free enterprise systems in other countries? > > One never hears of the Canadian free enterprise system, just as one never heard of the Parliamentary Committee on UnCanadian Activities. So is it true that Canada is the US’s greatest extra-national oil supplimenter? Yes, it is. > [@](#): > > In the United States there is less regulation of private industry than in other affluent democracies, lower taxes, and less of a safety net. We do not have laissez faire capitalism, but we have a closer approximation of it than exists in other countries. That is what is meant by the American free enterprise system. So? Sit on Canada’s face? To be honest, it’s American Foreign Policy. Shoe fit? Get those tar sands ready for our SUVs. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-capitalism-and-free-enterprise/551094/33 "2010-08-27T00:53:10Z")
Oh, good point. And dinky sentient coffee grounds fan scalding and mugwump cantoi, with ravens and writing desks, after all. I want you to know, adhay, that these days there are MANY decaffeinated beverages that are just as tasty as tar sands. I mean that from the bottom of my top, man…FIGHT THE POWER! -XT ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-capitalism-and-free-enterprise/551094/34 "2010-08-27T01:05:21Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Oh, good point. And dinky sentient coffee grounds fan scalding and mugwump cantoi, with ravens and writing desks, after all. > > I want you to know, adhay, that these days there are MANY decaffeinated beverages that are just as tasty as tar sands. I mean that from the bottom of my top, man…FIGHT THE POWER! > > -XT Put your top between your ankles and cough. IANADr. If it helps, hold on to your socks. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-capitalism-and-free-enterprise/551094/35 "2010-08-27T01:08:05Z")
I will take your advice under advisement, and give it the weight it’s due, considering the source. Did you fight the power? -XT ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-capitalism-and-free-enterprise/551094/36 "2010-08-27T01:11:26Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I will take your advice under advisement, and give it the weight it’s due, considering the source. Did you fight the power? > > -XT Attention whore that I am, I fight for power. Got any? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-capitalism-and-free-enterprise/551094/37 "2010-08-27T01:44:28Z")
Well, if you will just allow me to attach these jumper cables here… -XT ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-capitalism-and-free-enterprise/551094/38 "2010-08-27T02:21:59Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Well, if you will just allow me to attach these jumper cables here… > > -XT I do appreciate your willingness to negotiate. Hand me the cables. PLEASE. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-capitalism-and-free-enterprise/551094.md?page=1)