# Whats the difference between "Dark brown" and "black" hair? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 18, 2009, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-dark-brown-and-black-hair/510570 "2009-09-18T08:05:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-dark-brown-and-black-hair/510570/21 "2009-09-18T18:01:50Z")
> [@vifslan](#): > > How’d you respond to my hypothesis that the differences in what you call brown or black may be cultural? For example, my haircolour to another Nordic (perhaps even to a Middle European) is a medium brown (at least it’s called medium brown in the colour charts.) Not so around the Mediterranean, where people see me as blonde. Since black hair used to be so rare hereabouts, we may be less sensitive to nuances in the upper reaches of the Baltic region. Sort of, if it’s darker than a wood dinghy treated with coal tar, it’s black. That is so true. I’ve seen other Indian people with jet-black hair. They may not have the blue highlights you speak of but they don’t have any red highlights, either, and it’s as dark as dark can be. And mine definitely has red highlights. But people with light hair often don’t differentiate when it gets to such small variances. ---
**Author:** ![FlyingRamenMonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@FlyingRamenMonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingRamenMonster)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-dark-brown-and-black-hair/510570/22 "2009-09-18T18:16:47Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > I’ve never heard the thing about certain ethnic groups and black hair before, but it sounds prima facie silly to me. I’m very, very tempted to ask for a cite to a scientific study of it. Why do you need a study? Do they even do studies on this kind of thing? Are there also studies out there verifying that Africans cannot have #FFFFFF skin like a white nerdy guy? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-dark-brown-and-black-hair/510570/23 "2009-09-18T22:10:42Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > I’ve never heard the thing about certain ethnic groups and black hair before, but it sounds prima facie silly to me. I’m very, very tempted to ask for a cite to a scientific study of it. The people I hear that from don’t base it on science, they base on their notions of race, a slippery and inexact concept at best. ---
**Author:** ![Jormungandr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@Jormungandr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jormungandr)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-dark-brown-and-black-hair/510570/24 "2009-09-18T22:33:40Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Not sure if this is strictlt GQ, but do dopers have any idea? My own hair is what I think is black but I have had people tell me its “dark brown”. > Is there a tangible difference or is it just perception. The latter I think. I’m part of a certain ethnic group that usually has black hair. However, I don’t as I have very dark brown hair. You can’t tell from a distance or close up. The only way to do is is to take a strain and hold it to the light. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2009, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-dark-brown-and-black-hair/510570/25 "2009-09-18T23:56:45Z")
If I were to grab a crayon from a Crayola 10-color box (or probably even a 32-color box) to represent my hair color, it’d be the black one. But on the other hand, I’ve also met people whose hair is noticeably darker than my own. So if I’m drawing a self-portrait, my hair is black, but if I’m describing myself to someone who might have to distinguish me from one of those other folks, it’s dark brown. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-dark-brown-and-black-hair/510570/26 "2009-09-19T00:48:53Z")
To be accurate, wouldn’t you have to check the DNA of the person, and see what hair-color genes are there? I know in breeding horses, the various names people give to different coat colors are quite subjective and open to interpretation. There are some coat colors/patterns that look identical, but can come from different genetic combinations. You may have to wait until the horse raises offspring to determine accurately the genetic coat color. Or you can look at the horses’ DNA (which is commonly recorded now during registration of a foal). But it’s complicated – there are over a dozen genes involved in coat color/pattern in horses. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-dark-brown-and-black-hair/510570/27 "2009-09-19T02:54:12Z")
Take a piece of coal. If your hair matches it, your hair is black. Anything else is a little off. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-dark-brown-and-black-hair/510570/28 "2009-09-19T02:55:46Z")
> [@FlyingRamenMonster](#): > > Are there also studies out there verifying that Africans cannot have #FFFFFF skin like a white nerdy guy? [They can’t?](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ue5DN3zOIMU/SKjvhxoVgxI/AAAAAAAAAIA/xPN2q4YBUow/s1600/black%2Balbino.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Monstera\_deliciosa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monstera_deliciosa/32/109_2.png) [@Monstera\_deliciosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstera_deliciosa)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-dark-brown-and-black-hair/510570/29 "2009-09-19T03:43:36Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The people I hear that from don’t base it on science, they base on their notions of race, a slippery and inexact concept at best. Yes, like my 9th grade French teacher who was teaching the words for colors by asking students to identify the hair color of various other students. One girl very correctly identified my hair as brown. (It is a dark reddish brown that looks even redder in the afternoon sun, which was streaming through window at the time.) Nonetheless, Mademoiselle P. insisted adamantly and repeatedly that my hair was black. I’m a black person, and apparently she couldn’t conceive of my hair being any color but black. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-dark-brown-and-black-hair/510570/30 "2009-09-19T08:44:22Z")
If I ever saw anyone with #FFFFFF skin, I’d be very concerned for their health, or at least their safety from UV rays. My 4-year-old grandson’s father is from Africa. When I try to encourage him to learn black history and black pride, the little wiseacre answers me “I’m not black! I’m brown!” Then he points to something the color of coal and tells me “_That_’s black,” as though I was being silly. Then I acknowledge he’s right, and try to explain how people use words outside of their literal meaning, but he has little patience for such semantic slipperiness, which to him is just the folly of grownups. Well, that’s kids for you. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-dark-brown-and-black-hair/510570/31 "2009-09-19T09:15:01Z")
#ffffff? ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-dark-brown-and-black-hair/510570/32 "2009-09-19T12:00:29Z")
I too think that (perceived) etnicity and the beholder’s own background play a part. I remember too friend at university that had exactly the same hair colour. i made a mini-experiment asking people to name both of their hair colour (with both present) and always they’d said that the hair of my Northern-European-descent friend was lighter than that of my Spanish-descent friend’s. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-dark-brown-and-black-hair/510570/33 "2009-09-19T12:37:49Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > #ffffff? Yes, #ffffff (see top left square on HTML color code chart [http://html-color-codes.com/](http://html-color-codes.com/) ) ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-dark-brown-and-black-hair/510570/34 "2009-09-19T15:55:51Z")
True black, as others have mentioned, flashes blue or white in the sunlight, while dark brown shows its brown in the sun. It’s noticable on a short-haired animal like a horse. Kentucky Derby winner War Emblem, is “very dark brown.” He looks black in low light photos: [http://www.barntowire.com/War\_Emblem\_at\_Shadai.jpg](http://www.barntowire.com/War_Emblem_at_Shadai.jpg) But under bright sunshine, the red/brown in his coat is obvious: [http://www.horsehats.com/Images/RobertClark/BobClarkBig/War%20Emblem\_web.jpg](http://www.horsehats.com/Images/RobertClark/BobClarkBig/War%20Emblem_web.jpg) Compare to Cass Ole, the horse that played the Black Stallion in the movies; he looks _even blacker_ under bright sunlight… he is true black, which is fairly rare (dark brown is very common): [http://www.arabianbreeders.net/Forums/uploads/1202501041/gallery\_1109\_590\_15470.jpg](http://www.arabianbreeders.net/Forums/uploads/1202501041/gallery_1109_590_15470.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-dark-brown-and-black-hair/510570/35 "2009-09-19T16:41:42Z")
War Emblem’s face looks pretty brown, too, even in low light. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-dark-brown-and-black-hair/510570/36 "2009-10-03T04:28:34Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > Take a piece of coal. If your hair matches it, your hair is black. Anything else is a little off. FYI, many coals are brown, some light brown, and anthracite is often definitely grey. I have scores of samples in a variety of colours. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-dark-brown-and-black-hair/510570/37 "2009-10-03T10:50:13Z")
> [@vifslan](#): > > The most stringent definition I’ve heard focuses on the colour of your highlights in the sun. Black hair has blue highlights according to this, and if the highlights are red, it’s brown. That’s what I was going to say. Properly “black” hair has a bluish tint; dark brown is reddish. ---
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-dark-brown-and-black-hair/510570/38 "2009-10-03T15:29:02Z")
I just have to step in add that as you all know the colour black is simply the absence of light. Any colour - even yellow - with sufficient neutral darkening becomes black. Most ‘black’ hair when lightened by bleaching or very bright light shows as brown or reddish brown, probably because brown is the most prevalent hair pigment. Some black hair lightens to a bluish or purplish colour which is pretty rare, but still a colour. A truly colourless black would lighten to grey. There is no upper limit to brightness. Give me any black hair, leather, or rock and I can lighten it to grey, or more likely brown or blue. It is therefore dependant on a reference frame and a scope. I nominate typical sunlight and a random selection of people. In such a situation my hair would be as dark or darker than nearly everybody else’s hair, except for the extreme ends (which are a bleached by exposure to a very dark red). My hair is black. Yes, the pigment is a deep red, but if I hold a black object beside my hair, my hair still looks black. ---
**Author:** ![quixoticduck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/bc79bd/32.png) [@quixoticduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixoticduck)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-dark-brown-and-black-hair/510570/39 "2012-11-02T16:33:15Z")
> [@vifslan](#): > > How’d you respond to my hypothesis that the differences in what you call brown or black may be cultural? For example, my haircolour to another Nordic (perhaps even to a Middle European) is a medium brown (at least it’s called medium brown in the colour charts.) Not so around the Mediterranean, where people see me as blonde. Since black hair used to be so rare hereabouts, we may be less sensitive to nuances in the upper reaches of the Baltic region. Sort of, if it’s darker than a wood dinghy treated with coal tar, it’s black. > > The most stringent definition I’ve heard focuses on the colour of your highlights in the sun. Black hair has blue highlights according to this, and if the highlights are red, it’s brown. So glad I found others who agree with me! Not sure why it annoys me so much when people don’t see it, perhaps because it’s so clear to me! Even my brother sometimes says his hair is black when it so clearly isn’t! I think boys do tend to be worse at seeing colour though? Also I did a test on how well you can differentiate colour and got 100% so it might be that stuff that is obvious to me is not to others. I totally agree with the sunlight thing however I personally don’t need sunlight to clearly tell when a hair colour is off-black. It’s just quite different for me. I also tended to mainly get crushes on people with really, really, really, dark brown hair, but not with just dark brown hair or black hair, it was always just that really, really, really dark brown. Not sure why! So yeah, big difference to me! Also I don’t know about certain races only having black hair or about this affecting people’s perceptions (at least mine). I think if you showed me a photo of somebody’s hair with their face blurred out so I couldn’t really guess at their genetic makeup (although sometimes the hair texture itself might give an indication) I would give the same answers. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-dark-brown-and-black-hair/510570/40 "2012-11-02T18:53:32Z")
Zombie hair! I was scrolling through this thread, not realizing that most of the discussion was from 2009, until I clicked on the Wikipedia link in post 4 and realized that first two pictures no longer match the descriptions given. Instead of being labelled ‘black’ and ‘dark brown’, the first two are now ‘straight black’ and ‘kinky black’, which confuse the discussion, and I didn’t realize they were different colors. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-dark-brown-and-black-hair/510570.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-dark-brown-and-black-hair/510570.md?page=3)