# What's the difference between morals and ethics? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 6, 2010, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-morals-and-ethics/556205 "2010-10-06T02:22:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Strinka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/strinka/32/512_2.png) [@Strinka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strinka)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-morals-and-ethics/556205/1 "2010-10-06T02:22:14Z")
And why does it matter? ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-morals-and-ethics/556205/2 "2010-10-06T02:51:40Z")
To me, morals is an understanding you have with yourself (and perhaps your God). Ethics is an understanding you have with your profession. Or said another way, morals are how you conduct yourself personally, ethics are how you conduct yourself professionally. In the legal profession is where you’ll see this matter the most. Lawyers have a very strict set of ethics, that those of us in the real world would consider immoral. But they have a duty to their client, and not to society. If a sick bastard tells his lawyer he has kidnapped/rapped/ murdered a bunch of children, the lawyer is bound ethically to confidentiality, as well as to provide the best defense for his client. Morally he’d want to feed the guy to a wood chipper. Engineers on the other hand (at least in Canada) have a duty to society, and not to their client. Again, their ethics may clash with what we would consider moral. In short, ethics are often codified in some way, morals always seemed more ambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-morals-and-ethics/556205/3 "2010-10-06T02:54:44Z")
About the same as the difference between hogwash and bullshit. And it doesn’t matter. ETA: On emacknight’s point about ethics being actual rules–in that case they are just “rules.” If one wants to call them “ethics” or “ethical rules” or whatever, then I guess that’s fine, but they are just a set of rules. If one means ethics in the more general sense (i.e., not as referring to a set of rules), then they are just either hogwash or bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-morals-and-ethics/556205/4 "2010-10-06T03:09:38Z")
If only there was a resource somewhere that would tell us what words mean. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-morals-and-ethics/556205/5 "2010-10-06T03:28:47Z")
The difference is one of etymology. _Moral_ comes from Latin _mos_ (plural _mores_) meaning customs, habits. _Ethics_ comes from the Greek _ethos_ meaning character, manners. In terms of what they actually mean, their meanings substantially overlap. In fact, the Oxford English Dictionary defines _ethics_ as “The science of **morals** ; the department of study concerned with the principles of human duty”, and it defines _morals_ as “thought and discourse about moral questions; moral philosophy, **ethics** (and _morality_ is “ethical wisdom, knowledge of moral science”). In short, the Greek-derived term is defined by using the Latin-derived term, and vice versa. The Greek-derived term turns up in English later than the Latin-derived term – from the seventeenth century onwards. It’s a wild guess on my part, but this may have something to do with a desire in the Englightment to go beyond – or, more accurately, behind – the Christian-framed philosophical discourse about [moral/ethical] questions, and to draw directly on the resources of pre-Christian classical thought on such questions. The medieval/ecclesiastical use of Latin gave us the term _morality_; if we look to the Greek philosophers we are much more inclined to employ the term _ethics_. But we’re talking about the same thing. In terms of usage today, there is a tendency to employ _ethics_ in a secular context; thus we have “professional ethics” rather than “professional morality”. But in the Acadamy there is no such squeamishness; we talk of “moral philosophy”, not “ethical philosophy”. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-morals-and-ethics/556205/6 "2010-10-06T04:03:55Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > About the same as the difference between hogwash and bullshit. And it doesn’t matter. > > ETA: On emacknight’s point about ethics being actual rules–in that case they are just “rules.” If one wants to call them “ethics” or “ethical rules” or whatever, then I guess that’s fine, but they are just a set of rules. If one means ethics in the more general sense (i.e., not as referring to a set of rules), then they are just either hogwash or bullshit. That doesn’t seem entirely reasonable. I mean, even if you consider them unimportant or nonexistant or that arguments one way or the other are by their nature unimpressive or simply pointless, that doesn’t mean that understanding the definitions that people use isn’t worthwhile. Knowing the differences between two species of bullshit can still be helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-morals-and-ethics/556205/7 "2010-10-06T04:05:00Z")
Morals keep you from doing things that’ll get God mad at you. Ethics keep you from doing things that’ll get society mad at you. As good a distinction as any, I figure. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-morals-and-ethics/556205/8 "2010-10-06T05:32:54Z")
I’ve always felt that morals were the broad guidelines on what is right and wrong and ethics were the specific practices that arose from those guidelines. So being moral is knowing what is good and being ethical is doing what is good. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-morals-and-ethics/556205/9 "2010-10-06T11:44:04Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Morals keep you from doing things that’ll get God mad at you. > > Ethics keep you from doing things that’ll get society mad at you. > As good a distinction as any, I figure. Which one keeps me from doing things that’ll cause _me_ to get mad at me? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-morals-and-ethics/556205/10 "2010-10-06T13:15:55Z")
Morals are Good. Ethics are Lawful. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-morals-and-ethics/556205/11 "2010-10-06T13:20:11Z")
Or to put it another way: morals are about consequences, while ethics are about procedure. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-morals-and-ethics/556205/12 "2010-10-06T13:28:02Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If only there was a resource somewhere that would tell us what words mean. Are you under the impression that words have a particular meaning? That’s not going to fly very far around here. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-morals-and-ethics/556205/13 "2010-10-06T13:57:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Which one keeps me from doing things that’ll cause _me_ to get mad at me? Guilt. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-morals-and-ethics/556205/14 "2010-10-06T14:31:47Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Morals are Good. Ethics are Lawful. This is a very good way to put it. Morals are a set of goals for the proper relationships within the self, with society, and with a divine moral order. They do not require a deity, per se, but that the mroal order itself is transcendantly good and applicable eternally. Ethics are prodcedural rules which ensure complete fairness. They’re very often self-protection for those who use them. Interestingly, ethics are not self-evident. That is, they only make sense ina society which believes that fairness is morally right. Many societies who don’t embrace or even consider this view simply odn’t have ethics in the way we think of them. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-morals-and-ethics/556205/15 "2010-10-06T14:42:19Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > > [@Alessan](#): > > > > Morals are Good. Ethics are Lawful. > > This is a very good way to put it. Morals are a set of goals for the proper relationships within the self, with society, and with a divine moral order. They do not require a deity, per se, but that the mroal order itself is transcendantly good and applicable eternally. > > Ethics are prodcedural rules which ensure complete fairness. They’re very often self-protection for those who use them. Interestingly, ethics are not self-evident. That is, they only make sense ina society which believes that fairness is morally right. Many societies who don’t embrace or even consider this view simply odn’t have ethics in the way we think of them. It’s also interesting to put “lawful” into the mix: “The senator acted immorally” “The senator acted unethically” “The senator acted unlawfully” From there we can see how the three words, as least as far as US usage can carry very different meaning. **Bricker** is famous for defending the last statement, and ensuring that it isn’t confused with the first two. But we can see that a specific action (receiving a gift) can be attributed to one of those sentences, at the exclusion of the other two. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-morals-and-ethics/556205/16 "2010-10-06T14:57:30Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > > [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > > > This is a very good way to put it. Morals are a set of goals for the proper relationships within the self, with society, and with a divine moral order. They do not require a deity, per se, but that the mroal order itself is transcendantly good and applicable eternally. > > > > Ethics are prodcedural rules which ensure complete fairness. They’re very often self-protection for those who use them. Interestingly, ethics are not self-evident. That is, they only make sense ina society which believes that fairness is morally right. Many societies who don’t embrace or even consider this view simply odn’t have ethics in the way we think of them. > > It’s also interesting to put “lawful” into the mix: > “The senator acted immorally” > “The senator acted unethically” > “The senator acted unlawfully” > > From there we can see how the three words, as least as far as US usage can carry very different meaning. **Bricker** is famous for defending the last statement, and ensuring that it isn’t confused with the first two. But we can see that a specific action (receiving a gift) can be attributed to one of those sentences, at the exclusion of the other two. Alessan is referencing Dungeons and Dragons’ alignment system. “Lawful” with a big L as distinct from “lawful” meaning “legal”. Personally, I make the same distinction as Bryan Ekers. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-morals-and-ethics/556205/17 "2010-10-06T15:04:23Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > > [@emacknight](#): > > > > It’s also interesting to put “lawful” into the mix: > > “The senator acted immorally” > > “The senator acted unethically” > > “The senator acted unlawfully” > > > > From there we can see how the three words, as least as far as US usage can carry very different meaning. **Bricker** is famous for defending the last statement, and ensuring that it isn’t confused with the first two. But we can see that a specific action (receiving a gift) can be attributed to one of those sentences, at the exclusion of the other two. > > Alessan is referencing Dungeons and Dragons’ alignment system. “Lawful” with a big L as distinct from “lawful” meaning “legal”. > > Personally, I make the same distinction as Bryan Ekers. Uh, okay, but what \*\*Alessan \*\*using an Icy Burst Adamantine Greatsword of Backstabbing? I didn’t think so, roll again. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-morals-and-ethics/556205/18 "2010-10-06T15:20:42Z")
It’s Vorpal or nothing for me, baby. (And yeah, I tend to think in D&D terms. That’s essentially the religion I was raised in). ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-morals-and-ethics/556205/19 "2010-10-06T15:35:20Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It’s Vorpal or nothing for me, baby. > > (And yeah, I tend to think in D&D terms. That’s essentially the religion I was raised in). Ouch. That’s a religion with no principles, or maybe they have them but they change every edition. I remember the arguments over “Lawful Good” being “someone who fights evil without _mercy_.” Man, that was rough when the game specifically orders your Paladin to become a psycho killing machine. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-morals-and-ethics/556205/20 "2010-10-06T15:44:40Z")
I think Ethics is essentially codified morals where the higher authority it appeals to is concrete, not abstract. As in, a doctor’s ethics are supervised by other doctors and a soldier’s ethics are supervised by other soldiers, while they can both be morally impeached by anyone. Laws fall behind because of their bureaucratic stagnation and will always be behind the curve, esepecially for professions that are still evolving. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-morals-and-ethics/556205.md?page=2)