# What's the difference between National pride and Racial pride? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 3, 2004, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-national-pride-and-racial-pride/258212 "2004-08-03T23:09:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-national-pride-and-racial-pride/258212/21 "2004-08-04T15:52:58Z")
Since I participate in the governance of my nation by voting, I in some ways (real or fictitious) _do_ have a part in what this country is; it is a product of my participation. Thus, it it something that is, metaphorically speaking, is ‘mine’ and a result of my work. So, pride in my nation makes as much sense as pride in any other personal work. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-national-pride-and-racial-pride/258212/22 "2004-08-04T15:58:00Z")
> [@Mr2001](#): > > National Pride is inclusive of all people [in the same country] of all races. > Racial Pride is inclusive of all people [of the same race] in all countries. In theory, yes. In practice, I think your average American Klansman or Skinhead or member of the Southern Party or the Council of Conservative Citizens feels only slightly less distaste for, say, a Frenchman or an Italian or a Pole than for a black. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-national-pride-and-racial-pride/258212/23 "2004-08-04T20:36:41Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > Or, to go back to the US, look at what happened to the Native Americans. They were wiped out because of nationalism at its worse. Actually, that was a case of racism and nationalism working together – that is, white Americans of the time regarded Indians both as a separate race and as foreign nations. And the Indians thought of themselves the same way. (Indians were not even recognized as American citizens until, I think, 1912, despite the 14th Amendment – and many of them, I think, still identify with their Indian nations at least as much as with their American nationality.) What is more, they regarded blacks pretty much the same way – as aliens. Which is why antebellum abolitionists, except for the most radical of them, wanted to deport the blacks after freeing them – the idea that the two races/nations could share the same country as free people was unthinkable. The distinction between racial and national identity was not a clear-cut then as it is now. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-national-pride-and-racial-pride/258212/24 "2004-08-04T23:48:37Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > Right and of course that applies to Italian Americans, Irish Americans, Polish Americans etc, ALL of who have parades, flags, decals, scholarships, days, weeks and months of “ethic” pride…funny that you didn’t mention THEM or consider THEM unwillingly to be part of the “commonality”. > > I’m sure that was just an oversight, you really mean ANYONE who refers to the selves as “other” and American second. Right? Perhaps you should clarify. What month is Irish month? Polish month? Italian month? I know when there was a black pride month… St Patricks day is about the only Irish holiday I know of, and I have never seen the Hallmark store have any polish pride holiday decorations or Italian pride decorations, but I sure have seen how they bring out the shamrocks for st pattys day! Well, to be blunt about it, I have never gotten my ass chewed over calling some random white person american, though I have spoken with some people, noticed a spiffy accent in their speach and asked them if they are from \ but I have gotten the reaming of my little life when I had the temerity to tell someone that I worked with congratulations on getting their citizenship when they announced it at a work meeting, by some stupid arsfodel of color who said they werent american, they were _african american_ and that I was insenistive, boorish, prejudiced and that if they were in charge they would have me written up for insulting behavior based on the racial clause in the company policies. My words were “Hey John, congratulations on finally becoming an american.” He had been bubbling over for about 3 weeks in incredible enthusiasm when he got the letter telling him when he was going to get finalized. I was honestly happy for the guy, he came over from some country that had gone through about 10 name changes since the 50s barely speaking english to not just getting his citizenship, but also a GED, a bachelors in computer science, learning to be fully comprehendable in english AND hired in as an IT specialist making probably what an entire village back home made in a year. Not bad for starting out sweeping up in a nursing home and studying in his spare time. Frankly, most people dont go around vehemently being euroanything-american. You tend to see irish american stuff come out around st patrics day, and the italian american stuff if there is some sort of saints festival in a ‘little italy’ but in general on a day to day basis, most euro-americans are pretty lowkey about it all. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-national-pride-and-racial-pride/258212/25 "2004-08-05T00:17:48Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > In theory, yes. In practice, I think your average American Klansman or Skinhead or member of the Southern Party or the Council of Conservative Citizens feels only slightly less distaste for, say, a Frenchman or an Italian or a Pole than for a black. I’d say that means they’re practicing _both_ racial and national pride, not that racial pride excludes people from different nations. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-national-pride-and-racial-pride/258212/26 "2004-08-05T00:31:22Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > What month is Irish month? Polish month? Italian month? I know when there was a black pride month… St Patricks day is about the only Irish holiday I know of, and I have never seen the Hallmark store have any polish pride holiday decorations or Italian pride decorations, but I sure have seen how they bring out the shamrocks for st pattys day! [March](http://www.irishamericanheritage.com/webpageirish1.htm) is Irish American Heritage Month. [October](http://www.polishfalcons.org/heritagemonth.html) is Polish American Heritage Month. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-national-pride-and-racial-pride/258212/27 "2004-08-05T00:37:16Z")
**aruvqan** - Ha, ha, everybody hates you! Anyway… The difference is that racial pride is pointless & superficial while national pride isn’t. It makes sense to be proud of the country that has shaped your thoughts and personality and provides you with the lifestyle that you enjoy. It makes sense to be proud of a local populace that shares your core ideologies and traditions, and has created something tangible because of them. Hooray for America’s dedication to innovation and change, which gives us an endlessly satisfying and diverse marketplace. What is racial pride? Hooray for pinched, protruding noses? Hooray for wide, prominent cheekbones? Hooray for thin calves? I’m proud of that ancient inventor because I happen to have the same type of eye folds that he has? It’s stupid. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-national-pride-and-racial-pride/258212/28 "2004-08-05T00:38:51Z")
Oh yeah, in NYC they hold an annual Polish American parade. I’m sure other cities have something similar. I’m guessing the reason why most whites don’t go around saying they are a fill-in-the-blank American is because most are ethnic mutts. However, I have heard folks in NJ and NY claim Italian Americaness. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-national-pride-and-racial-pride/258212/29 "2004-08-05T02:22:21Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > [March](http://www.irishamericanheritage.com/webpageirish1.htm) is Irish American Heritage Month. > > [October](http://www.polishfalcons.org/heritagemonth.html) is Polish American Heritage Month. March makes sense, remember I did mention St Patrics Day=) October = Polish? \ Gives me a theme for my birthday party this year=) I can go for beer, good homemade garlic sausage, my special homemade pierogies and cabbage rolls=) Beats the regular Oct 27th invention of the mink covered bottle opener in 1959=) ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-national-pride-and-racial-pride/258212/30 "2004-08-05T02:38:28Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > **aruvqan** - Ha, ha, everybody hates you! > Anyway… The difference is that racial pride is pointless & superficial while national pride isn’t. It makes sense to be proud of the country that has shaped your thoughts and personality and provides you with the lifestyle that you enjoy. It makes sense to be proud of a local populace that shares your core ideologies and traditions, and has created something tangible because of them. Hooray for America’s dedication to innovation and change, which gives us an endlessly satisfying and diverse marketplace. What is racial pride? Hooray for pinched, protruding noses? Hooray for wide, prominent cheekbones? Hooray for thin calves? I’m proud of that ancient inventor because I happen to have the same type of eye folds that he has? It’s stupid. Frankly, I really don’t care if people hate me for refusing to be politically correct. As you say, I have no particular pride for my reddish brown hair, freckles and fairly pale skin [welsh, manx, scots and english, with a small admixture of german and one lone french woman] but am pretty dang proud of the contributions my family has made in this country [we came over in the 1630s, and have been in the military, and in government and industry in various capacities ever since then.] I see no reason that the average black person/person of color/negro/PCname of the month who is descended of people brought over to the colonies of the carribean or the US can not be proud of their part in the development of this country, and how their actions helped form the industrial base of the country, how they forced a civil rights change, how they have made artistic and scientific and social contributions that have ALL gone into making the US what it is today. I am just as proud of what my family has done as I am proud that my friend was granted citizenship and furthered himself head and shoulders above what he had in his birth country. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-national-pride-and-racial-pride/258212/31 "2004-08-05T04:13:50Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Frankly, I really don’t care if people hate me for refusing to be politically correct. As you say, I have no particular pride for my reddish brown hair, freckles and fairly pale skin [welsh, manx, scots and english, with a small admixture of german and one lone french woman] but am pretty dang proud of the contributions my family has made in this country [we came over in the 1630s, and have been in the military, and in government and industry in various capacities ever since then. Really, what business has anybody being proud (or ashamed) of the deeds of their ancestors? **You** didn’t do that stuff. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-national-pride-and-racial-pride/258212.md?page=1)