# What's the difference between "thee" and "thou"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 24, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-thee-and-thou/518773 "2009-11-24T14:57:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-thee-and-thou/518773/21 "2009-11-26T11:53:49Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Ye as tje vocative and nominative of you in Middle and Early Modern English was pronounced /ji/ (“Yee”). The letter used for the form of “the” written “ye” (and pronounced “the”) was _wen_, which rsembled _thorn_ but with the rightward extension angular rather than round. Instead of a smooth curve coming out from the upright, visualize it with two 45-degree angles coming out 1/4 and 3/4 of the way along the upright, and joining each other at the halfway point out to the right of the upright. or imagine a vertical line cutting a diamond shape in half, with the left half then erased. Are you sure about that? I thought it was a thorn, whereas _wynn_ was used for a “w” sound. [Wynn - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wynn) > [@Enola\_Straight](#): > > IIRC, the reason why The and Thou were confounded into Ye and You was because of the “Olde English” letter thorn, a cursive y-looking letter representing the phonic sound “th”, which people misinterpereted as a regular y. I don’t think this is right. Ye meaning “you” is a totally different word from “ye” meaning “the” (and pronounced as such). The “y” in the latter is actually a thorn, pronounced “th”. AFAIK it is only coincidence that “thou” spelt with a thorn looks like “you”. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-thee-and-thou/518773/22 "2009-11-26T13:29:38Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > **Giles** try a few miles south of Leeds, especially in the former mining communities. Or [across](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/been-to-wigan-got-the-tshirt-that-translates-their-dialect-408050.html) the [Pennines](http://languageandhumor.com/blog/index.php?p=72&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-thee-and-thou/518773/23 "2009-11-26T17:47:17Z")
> [@](#): > > (Voiced, here, means that the tongue vibrates against the back of the upper front teeth, whereas voiceless means it does not.) I can make voiced or unvoiced sounds regardless of where my tongue is in relation to my teeth. The difference is whether you’re vibrating your vocal cords, not what your tongue is doing. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-thee-and-thou/518773/24 "2009-11-26T20:09:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > In the original Hebrew, in passages where God is addressing men, He uses the Hebrew familiar forms, much as one would within a family. The translators of the King James version correctly translated these into the English familiar forms, and so we have “Thou shalt not…” and so on. In early modern English, “thou” was singular and “you” was plural. The formal/familiar distinction came into play as English speakers started to adopt more of the speech and manners of the continent, but “thou” remained properly a singular form. Thus we have Biblical passages such as this one (emphasis and parantheticals added): “ **Thou** (_singular you_) shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth; and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach **you** (_you and him_) what _ **ye** _ (you and he) shall do." So the commandments that begin “thou shalt” refer not to the collective, but to the individual (“Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife,” not “You shall not covet your neighbours’ wives”). Similar, when God is addressed as “thou” it is clear that only one god is being addressed. It’s interesting I think to look at Shakespeare’s use of “thou” and “you.” When speakers switch from “you” to “thou” it ofen signals emotion showing through and may well be followed by a brawl or a bout of passionate hand-holding. But sometimes it doesn’t seem to mean anything at all. By his time, “you” had already begun to replace “thou” in most contexts. The traslators of the King James Bible did not in fact follow contemporary idiom but deliberately affected a somewhat archaic style to give it an added air of dignity and authority. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2009, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-thee-and-thou/518773/25 "2009-11-27T06:04:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I can make voiced or unvoiced sounds regardless of where my tongue is in relation to my teeth. The difference is whether you’re vibrating your vocal cords, not what your tongue is doing. Huh. Perhaps you’re right. I thought ‘voiced’ was more context-sensitive than that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-thee-and-thou/518773.md?page=1)