# What's the difference between urban legend and religion? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 3, 2003, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-urban-legend-and-religion/185970 "2003-07-03T06:40:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-urban-legend-and-religion/185970/1 "2003-07-03T06:40:34Z")
I was trying to define the term “urban legend” for someone, when it occurred to me in the back of my mind that I was elaborating and over-qualifying my statements to exclude religious belief. My definition was along the lines of “an urban legend is a widely repeated story that has little proof, or proof that has been distorted by imperfect word-of-mouth. Even though an urban legend isn’t true, it has a compelling element that people want to believe, so it takes on a life of its own. Very often, the urban legend is reported as historical fact, or … uh… as something that happened to someone the speaker knows through a friend of a friend…” and here I began to waffle. Where did I go wrong? Or did I? Is there a difference, and if so, what is it? FISH ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-urban-legend-and-religion/185970/2 "2003-07-03T07:06:47Z")
Religions actually tend to have rural origins. ---
**Author:** ![Tejota](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Tejota](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tejota)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-urban-legend-and-religion/185970/3 "2003-07-03T07:22:03Z")
Urban Legends are falsifiable. That is, they are specific enough to be tested for truth. Religions may have falsifiable pieces, but the core of the belief is not specific enough to be proved false. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-urban-legend-and-religion/185970/4 "2003-07-03T07:55:16Z")
Well… urban legends don’t have to have a supernatural element, which is pretty much de rigeur for religions these days… ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-urban-legend-and-religion/185970/5 "2003-07-03T08:02:57Z")
also, in the cases of Judaism, Christianity, Islam, & Bahai, actual people are documented as claiming to be witnesses of these things- it’s not “a cousin of a friend of my uncle’s mailman”. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-urban-legend-and-religion/185970/6 "2003-07-03T11:30:15Z")
Religion has an element of **devotion** or **loyalty** to it, while an urban legend is merely **believed** to be true, with no emotional strings attached (except, I suppose, the desire not to get this long-held belief disproven, which is more of an inertia thing than a love or fear of the religion). ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-urban-legend-and-religion/185970/7 "2003-07-03T12:17:10Z")
We talked about this a little in a folklore class once. Urban legends differ from religious mythos in a couple of fairly basic ways, although there are pretty strong similarities which have already been laid out. First off, mythos tends to be fairly static, while urban legends tend to be very fluid. The stories a religion tells don’t change. Religions pick a story and stick to it, for lack of a better phrase. Jesus turned water into wine 2000 years ago, and the story hasn’t been updated to include whiskey and Coke, or rocks into cheese logs, or whatever. Urban legends, however, change with the times, updating themselves to fit current events. The black-guy-in-the-elevator-with-the-two-old-white-women story, for instance, has been told about every black celebrity from Reggie Jackson to Eddie Murphy to Dennis Rodman. Secondly, as has been pointed out, religion by definition contains an element of the supernatural. Urban legends, however, tend to revolve around stuff that can be explained entirely by human nature, the good bits and bad bits. The heroes don’t win out because they’re blessed or divine–they win out because of luck, or cleverness, or bravery. The villains aren’t devils, they’re maniacs, or stupid people, or satanists. Also, religion tends to give us the names of specific people who did specific things at specific times. We can’t really verify these names and dates because of lack of historical records, but we _can_ tie them to specific historical events. Urban legend tends to be more amorphous, involving my cousin’s friend’s father’s boss’s roommate, this woman in Denver, or the ubiquitous friend of a friend. No names or dates, usually, and if there are names and dates, someone else has heard the exact same story with different names and dates. There were some other differences, but the class was five years ago, and they escape me at the moment. I do, however, remember the professor going through this huge list of common characteristics of the heroes in folklore–most of them applied to figures from ancient religions like Hercules, and every single one of them applied to Jesus. Make of that what you will. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-urban-legend-and-religion/185970/8 "2003-07-03T12:29:46Z")
Urban legends are just stories while Religions are moral codes which guide the behavior of believers. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-urban-legend-and-religion/185970/9 "2003-07-03T12:30:16Z")
I’m surprised at the OP, actually. Even for me, a fairly non-religious person, it’s pretty obvious that a religion and an urban legend are not remotely similar. A religion is a set of specific beliefs about a spiritual concept that includes a code of behaviour. It includes many beliefs on a variety of subjects, often in uncountable number, and almost invariably has much to say on human conduct. A religion is a guide for how to live one’s life. (Not that it’s always followed.) An urban legend is just a phony story that some believe to be true. It’s only ONE “belief,” doesn’t have an associated code of behaviour, and isn’t necessarily supernatural. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-urban-legend-and-religion/185970/10 "2003-07-03T12:43:04Z")
Well, actually, Rick, urban legends often _do_ have an implicit moral guideline and code of behavior in them. The stupid, the wicked, and those who deviate from the norms of society get punished. The lazy students who try to lie their way into a makeup final get caught by a wily professor. The hook-murder gets his hook ripped off (and the naughty parking teens almost get killed, 'cause sex is dangerous). The guy trying to get it on with his secretary gets caught naked at his own surprise birthday party. These are cautionary tales, and they warn us not to act like these people lest we come to the same bad ends. In other legends, cleverness or virtue gets rewarded. To dismiss them as just stupid stories is somewhat misguided. I mean, those parables Jesus was always coming out with were phony stories, too, but we generally accept that they had a deeper meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-urban-legend-and-religion/185970/11 "2003-07-03T20:16:38Z")
[Urban legends are not necessarily “phony.”](http://www.snopes.com/info/glossary.asp) ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-urban-legend-and-religion/185970/12 "2003-07-03T22:18:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CrazyCatLady \* > \*\*Well, actually, Rick, urban legends often _do_ have an implicit moral guideline and code of behavior in them. The stupid, the wicked, and those who deviate from the norms of society get punished. \*\* Yep, although you forgot one lesson: Them city folks is crazy. Cities are full of gangs and rapists and gang rapists and thieves and axe-weilding men dressed up as women. And sometimes they do have a supernatural component. Off the top of my head, The missing day in time The hole to hell Dancing with the devil If we add glurge to the mix we get tons of religion, usually in the form of cute puppy dogs calling God to help save a cute little boy who is dying of ostensiomultisplerosiasis. ---
**Author:** ![Susma\_Rio\_Sep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@Susma\_Rio\_Sep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susma_Rio_Sep)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-urban-legend-and-religion/185970/13 "2003-07-03T23:35:26Z")
How to create an urban legend, try this: Tell ten persons (family, friends, people in your daily rounds) this experience: > [@](#): > > _At 2:00 a.m. the other night I was at the stop light in that intersection of . . . And I casually looked at the vehicle to my right, also waiting for the light to change. There were only two cars here, mine and the other. I was mildly surprised: there was no driver and no other occupants either in that car; but the engine was running. So I thought they must have gotten out for some purpose. Then the light turned green and I drove off, taking a look at the same time to see whether people had returned to the car beside mine. Horror of horrors, no one returned to the car, but it drove off without any driver and passengers. What did I do? I turned left at the next corner and rushed home. I told my wife, she won’t believe me._ - One day that story will come back to you as an urban legend. About urban legends and religion, the first is to keep our idle mind busy and entertained, the second is to invest our mind and heart with hope of assistance here and after death. Now, wise guys put urban legends of a certain kind into their religions. You want to know ‘religious’ urban legends, go to a prayer meeting and you will hear testimonies which are in many instances no different from urban legends, except they give hope of assistance in this life and after death, from the unknown power believed in. So, urban legends are components of religion, and religion gives rise also to urban legends. Susma Rio Sep \*I made up this story myself and told my in-laws once, on the occasion when I was driving them home in a lonely night; they took it seriously. On reaching their home, I told them it was all made up by me to entertain them during the lonely drive. Did I somehow get it from somewhere? Tell me if you know of a similar story. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-urban-legend-and-religion/185970/14 "2003-07-03T23:39:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tdn \* > **ostensiomultisplerosiasis** Ooo, that’s gotta sting. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-urban-legend-and-religion/185970/15 "2003-07-03T23:51:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Susma Rio Sep \* > \*\*\*At 2:00 a.m. the other night I was at the stop light in that intersection of . . . And I casually looked at the vehicle to my right, also waiting for the light to change. There were only two cars here, mine and the other. {snip} > > * * * > [@](#): > > \*\*\*I always figured out that these letters were made up, but I had to share this experience. I was working late one night at the college library when in walked the most gorgeous babe I have ever seen. She had long blonde hair, huge tits, and a butt you wouldn’t believe. > > * * * ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-urban-legend-and-religion/185970/16 "2003-07-04T00:55:26Z")
Be surprised if you like, **RickJay.** I want to make it clear that I know there is a difference between the two, but while trying to define an urban legend aloud, I somehow got twisted around the axle and felt myself adding mental qualifiers. It was along the lines of, “It’s something people believe that feels good but it isn’t true… except religion. It’s something that’s reported falsely as historical fact… but it’s not religion.” There had to be something wrong, I felt, with the way I was defining it. Someone else online argued that religion is a specific subset of urban legend, along the lines of UFOs and Elvis, but I wasn’t prepared to go that far. Anyway, I see the explanations here make more sense to me than I made even to myself. Next time I pull an Isadora Duncan I’ll come here first. 🙂 FISH ---
**Author:** ![Susma\_Rio\_Sep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@Susma\_Rio\_Sep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susma_Rio_Sep)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-urban-legend-and-religion/185970/17 "2003-07-04T03:26:49Z")
What about this one: > [@](#): > > \*_One night I came home: wife and kids all out, no one in the whole house, not even our pet dog, Barney, kids must have taken him with them. Another evening when I had to get dinner by myself. So I said to myself that I would take a nap first and decide what to find in the fridge. When I stepped inside the bedroom, what did I see? The most luscious youngish juicy babe in the whole history of mankind, all naked, with open arms and looking at me with lust. I could not do anything because I had been conditioned as a good Catholic not to do any lusty act except with my duly wedded wife. I threw the babe out, not even bothering to ask her where she came from. Then I took my nap and dreamed of Jesus appearing to me. I was expecting Him to tell me: “Well done, good and faithful servant”. You know what He told me instead: “You stupid son of your mother; I expected you to be good but not stupid”._ \*\* Know of any more self-made urban legends? Susma Rio Sep \*_I told that legend already somewhere in these forums._ > [@](#): > > Originally posted by Susma Rio Sep: > At 2:00 a.m. the other night I was at the stop light in that intersection of . . . And I casually looked at the vehicle to my right, also waiting for the light to change. There were only two cars here, mine and the other. (snip) > > ``` > Reply of tdn: > > ``` > > I always figured out that these letters were made up, but I had to share this experience. I was working late one night at the college library when in walked the most gorgeous babe I have ever seen. She had long blonde hair, huge tits, and a butt you wouldn’t believe. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-urban-legend-and-religion/185970/18 "2003-07-05T00:38:56Z")
**Susma** , that one’s hilarious! If you don’t mind, I’ll wash the stench of the BBQ Pit off and send it on to a few appreciative friends and family. CJ ---
**Author:** ![Susma\_Rio\_Sep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/35a633/32.png) [@Susma\_Rio\_Sep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susma_Rio_Sep)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2003, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-urban-legend-and-religion/185970/19 "2003-07-13T12:31:47Z")
Siege: Thanks for the compliments. Don’t forget to mention my name; I am rather vain about my authorship. Ha ha ha. Susma Rio Sep > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Siege \* > \*\ ***Susma** , that one’s hilarious! If you don’t mind, I’ll wash the stench of the BBQ Pit off and send it on to a few appreciative friends and family. > > CJ \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Owes\_Bess](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c37758/32.png) [@Alan\_Owes\_Bess](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Owes_Bess)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2003, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-urban-legend-and-religion/185970/20 "2003-07-13T13:02:13Z")
To judge by the examples cited so far, I’m not sure that ghost stories should qualify as urban legends, per se. An urban legend would be more like something that is commonly claimed to be a historical fact, such as the claim that it was common for “Help Wanted” signs displayed in shop windows between 1850-1920 to have a “No Irish Need Apply” qualifier. Senator Ted Kennedy, among others, has claimed to have seen these signs in his youth, although coming from a fairly wealthy family, it seems unlikely. We’ll disregard for the moment how stone/bullet proof these shop display windows were. In the last decade, the major newspapers of most major east coast cities between 1830 -1900 have been scanned and recorded for posterity and searches have been made for the magic phrase “No Irish Need Apply” (or variations thereof). Two examples have been found, so it is not, strictly speaking, completely an urban legend, but it is highly doubtful that Senator Ted Kennedy really saw such a sign. He was caught cheating in his Harvard exams, after all. I won’t post a link. Do your own Google search. Try the word “true” or “false” with the magic NINO phrase mentioned above. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-difference-between-urban-legend-and-religion/185970.md?page=2)