# What's the dope on "dowsing" for graves? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dope-on-dowsing-for-graves/572380 "2011-02-23T20:58:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dope-on-dowsing-for-graves/572380/21 "2011-02-24T14:55:44Z")
I can dowse for dirt with 100% accuracy. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dope-on-dowsing-for-graves/572380/22 "2011-02-24T21:37:28Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Dude, if you can bring a rod, you can bring a shovel. Yeah, I don’t get that either. A “grave dowser” would certainly get a lot of police interest if he reported and documented a shallow grave with a human skeleton in it. Are the dowsers too lazy to do some digging? It’s not like they can use “I didn’t want to disturb the crime scene” as argument because Hilton’s already been convicted. ---
**Author:** ![Submerged](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/da6949/32.png) [@Submerged](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Submerged)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dope-on-dowsing-for-graves/572380/23 "2011-02-24T22:23:59Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Yeah, I don’t get that either. A “grave dowser” would certainly get a lot of police interest if he reported and documented a shallow grave with a human skeleton in it. Are the dowsers too lazy to do some digging? It’s not like they can use “I didn’t want to disturb the crime scene” as argument because Hilton’s already been convicted. Somewhere in all the crazy rambling on the websleuths site is some bizarre rationalization for not digging. But trying to read through all those crazy posts makes my brain hurt, so…dunno. ---
**Author:** ![Submerged](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/da6949/32.png) [@Submerged](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Submerged)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dope-on-dowsing-for-graves/572380/24 "2011-02-24T22:34:01Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > What’s to stop these bitterly complaining “crime junkies” from digging up one or more of the alleged burial spots? Bring a skull in to the authorities, and you’ll have their attention fast. I don’t know. They all hang out in this chatroom: [http://www.wctv.tv/home/misc/114939424.html](http://www.wctv.tv/home/misc/114939424.html) Maybe I’ll try asking them. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2011, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dope-on-dowsing-for-graves/572380/25 "2011-02-28T18:57:31Z")
> [@Submerged](#): > > Somewhere in all the crazy rambling on the websleuths site is some bizarre rationalization for not digging. But trying to read through all those crazy posts makes my brain hurt, so…dunno. Websleuths is a good site for finding all the news articles for a case in one place, plus they’re on the ball for finding the news first. But, um, they aren’t so good in other areas. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dope-on-dowsing-for-graves/572380/26 "2011-03-01T23:34:35Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Dowsing doesn’t work. Proof of that is the lack of winning the [million-dollar prize](http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html) that has been offered for many years by the James Randi Educational Foundation in Florida. Anyone who can demonstrate – under proper observing conditions where cheating is ruled out – an ability to find something using any kind of dowsing procedure can claim the prize. Many have tried, none have succeeded. Actually, Randi is a fucking moron. He keeps setting tests that are VERY poorly designed and run. \*Many \*people have succeeded in the tests he sets. But you knew that already. I really want to know what you think you achieve by constantly citing this rubbish. You obviously know that Randi makes it up. Do you think \*anyone \*believes him? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dope-on-dowsing-for-graves/572380/27 "2011-03-02T00:11:57Z")
By the way, just to make things clear because of [forum rules](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=448632) my accusation of dishonesty and stupidity applies only to James Randi. I am not saying that Musicat is either. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dope-on-dowsing-for-graves/572380/28 "2011-03-02T00:41:23Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Actually, Randi is a fucking moron. He keeps setting tests that are VERY poorly designed and run. \*Many \*people have succeeded in the tests he sets. > > But you knew that already. > I really want to know what you think you achieve by constantly citing this rubbish. You obviously know that Randi makes it up. Do you think \*anyone \*believes him? I do. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dope-on-dowsing-for-graves/572380/29 "2011-03-02T01:07:23Z")
Yeah, I find Randi pretty convincing. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dope-on-dowsing-for-graves/572380/30 "2011-03-02T01:41:23Z")
And pretty damn fair, too. Allowing the participants to sign off on any procedures beforehand and waiting until they are ready-can’t get much fairer than that. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dope-on-dowsing-for-graves/572380/31 "2011-03-02T01:43:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I do. Seriously? You actually believe Randi tells the truth? So, just as an example Randi frequently tells the following story. _I challenge all the dowsers in a similar way. Since 94 percent of the Earth’s surface has water within drillable distance my challenge is to find a dry spot! They don’t want to do it. Why? Because they only have a six percent chance of success._ As you know, he has told that same story over and over again. He frequently lectures about dowsing, and about a third of the lectures he gives and articles he writes contain the same tale. Do you think he’s telling the truth? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dope-on-dowsing-for-graves/572380/32 "2011-03-02T01:51:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And pretty damn fair, too. Allowing the participants to sign off on any procedures beforehand and waiting until they are ready-can’t get much fairer than that. What do you mean exactly? So, if Randi proposes a protocol, and the applicant agrees, then the protocol is proved to be a valid one, beyond dispute. Is that what you are claiming? Is that what you really believe? And are you prepared to stand behind the claim? Or maybe I’ve misunderstood you, and you meant something else. If so, then state what you meant. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dope-on-dowsing-for-graves/572380/33 "2011-03-02T01:55:26Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > What do you mean exactly? > > So, if Randi proposes a protocol, and the applicant agrees, then the protocol is proved to be a valid one, beyond dispute. > > Is that what you are claiming? Is that what you really believe? And are you prepared to stand behind the claim? > > Or maybe I’ve misunderstood you, and you meant something else. If so, then state what you meant. I mean _exactly_ what I say. The rest of whatever it is you wrote above came from you, not me, and I’m not of a mind to interpret your posts. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dope-on-dowsing-for-graves/572380/34 "2011-03-02T01:56:59Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Seriously? You actually believe Randi tells the truth? > > So, just as an example Randi frequently tells the following story. > > _I challenge all the dowsers in a similar way. Since 94 percent of the Earth’s surface has water within drillable distance my challenge is to find a dry spot! They don’t want to do it. Why? Because they only have a six percent chance of success._ > > As you know, he has told that same story over and over again. He frequently lectures about dowsing, and about a third of the lectures he gives and articles he writes contain the same tale. > Do you think he’s telling the truth? Telling the truth about what part? 1) That he challenges all dowsers to find a dry spot, 2) that 94% of the Earth has water within drillable range or 3) that dowsers refuse to accept his challenge. 1. and 3) are things that could be lies - 2) is something that might be false, but not a lie (a mistaken belief). ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dope-on-dowsing-for-graves/572380/35 "2011-03-02T02:05:06Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Telling the truth about what part? 1) That he challenges all dowsers to find a dry spot, 2) that 94% of the Earth has water within drillable range or 3) that dowsers refuse to accept his challenge. > > 1. and 3) are things that could be lies - 2) is something that might be false, but not a lie (a mistaken belief). I’m asking about all three of them. It is my stated belief that each of those three is a direct and deliberate lie. He isn’t mistaken. He’s lying. Czarcasm knows why. He also knows, on some level, that his hero is a constant liar, but doesn’t want to face the fact that he has been duped by a confidence trickster. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dope-on-dowsing-for-graves/572380/36 "2011-03-02T02:07:14Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I’m asking about all three of them. > > It is my stated belief that each of those three is a direct and deliberate lie. He isn’t mistaken. He’s lying. > > Czarcasm knows why. He also knows, on some level, that his hero is a constant liar, but doesn’t want to face the fact that he has been duped by a confidence trickster. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dope-on-dowsing-for-graves/572380/37 "2011-03-02T02:09:08Z")
I hadn’t heard of grave dowsing before, but it fits. Most “psychic” abilities and phenomena seem to me to occupy niches where it’s hard to tell whether they are working or not. Ghosts never appear clearly in front of a dozen witness all armed with cameras. No, they appear in the dark, are barely visible and usually just in front of one poor sap who no one believes. People dowse for water underground where it’s hard to tell without expensive drilling whether they are right or wrong, and if they are right whether that is because of skill or because ubiquity of underground water in that area. People don’t dowse for simple testable things. Graves are brilliant: you can say whatever shit you like (and for all I know believe what you say) but given that in most cases you aren’t going to exhume the body, who’s to know? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dope-on-dowsing-for-graves/572380/38 "2011-03-02T02:13:44Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I’m asking about all three of them. > > It is my stated belief that each of those three is a direct and deliberate lie. He isn’t mistaken. He’s lying. > > Czarcasm knows why. He also knows, on some level, that his hero is a constant liar, but doesn’t want to face the fact that he has been duped by a confidence trickster. Have you considered testing your mind-reading skills with the MDC? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dope-on-dowsing-for-graves/572380/39 "2011-03-02T02:17:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I mean _exactly_ what I say. The rest of whatever it is you wrote above came from you, not me, and I’m not of a mind to interpret your posts. I’m not asking you to interpret my posts. I’m asking you to clarify your own post. Why are you unwilling to say what you mean? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2011, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dope-on-dowsing-for-graves/572380/40 "2011-03-02T02:19:08Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I’m not asking you to interpret my posts. I’m asking you to clarify your own post. > > Why are you unwilling to say what you mean? I said exactly what I mean. You seem to be upset that I won’t reword what I said to fit what you want to hear, which pretty much makes it your problem, not mine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dope-on-dowsing-for-graves/572380.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-dope-on-dowsing-for-graves/572380.md?page=3)