# What's the "final" word on the Benghazi embassy attack? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 31, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384 "2012-10-31T00:39:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/41 "2012-11-01T16:25:14Z")
So the answer is that it was blind partisan bias on your part? Thanks for having the guts to prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/42 "2012-11-01T16:27:05Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Yup … > > ``` > BlogBanner_MorningJoe_976x100 > > ``` > > President Barack Obama: Morning Joe Interview (FULL TRANSCRIPT) > MSNBC staff > 7:14 am on 10/29/2012 > > Mika Brzezinski: Why has it been so easy for critics to say the administration does not have its story straight on Benghazi? > > President Barack Obama: Well, look, the fact of the matter is that this is a tragedy. There’s all kinds of legitimate questions to ask because anytime a U.S. ambassador and three other Americans who were serving our country get killed, we have to figure out what happened, and fix it. And most importantly, we’ve got to bring those folks who carried that out to justice. That’s exactly what we’re going to do. But I do take offense, as I’ve said at one of the debates, with some suggestion that in any way, we haven’t tried to make sure that the American people knew, as information was coming in what we believed happened. And- > > Joe Scarborough: Was it the intel community that gave you bad information early on? > > Obama: That-that > > Scarborough: Because the story keeps changing. > > Obama: Well, that’s what we’re going to find out from the investigation. But the truth is that across the board, when this happened, my number 1 priority was, secure Americans, figure out what happened, bring those folks to justice. We are in the process of doing that right now. Congress has been getting the flow of information continuously from day 1. And what my attitude on this is, if we find out we that there was a big breakdown, and somebody didn’t do their job, they’ll be held accountable. Ultimately, as commander-in-chief, I’m responsible, and I don’t shy away from that responsibility. My number 1 responsibility is to go after the folks who did this, and we’re going to make sure we get them. I’ve got a pretty good track record of doing that. > > NOT FULL TRANSCRIPT…MUCH MORE ON OTHER TOPICS Maybe it’s my ideology here, but I find that a reasonable response. The whole “cover-up” idea is incoherent. It seems to me the timeline went something like: [ul] [li]Event in Benghazi. [/li][li]Mitt Romney steps on own dick in attempt to politicize it.[/li][li]Administration thinks it is related to other riots. [/li][li]Administration finds out it was an attack, perhaps unrelated to riots.[/li][li]Republicans pretend outrage at cover-up of nothing.[/li][li]Republicans pretend outrage over lack of additional security, for a completely separate facility.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/43 "2012-11-01T23:05:24Z")
[Geraldo slams ‘GOP bloodlust’ over Benghazi.](http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/geraldo-benghazi-gop-bloodlust-153250132.html) > [@](#): > > It’s “clear no C130 gunships were available,” Rivera tweeted. “Criticize coverup [but] saying White House watched [and] did nothing to help is a lie.” > > Rivera called the “GOP bloodlust” surrounding the Obama administration’s handling of Libya “insincere,” “desperate” and reminiscent of the political firestorm surrounding the “Fast and Furious” gun-walking scandal that rocked the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in 2011. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/44 "2012-11-02T00:15:31Z")
Well, there you go. Geraldo has spoken, people! ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/45 "2012-11-02T02:38:15Z")
For what it’s worth, the CIA says Fox News is full of shit: [http://news.yahoo.com/us-officials-no-delays-rescue-effort-libya-223118242.html](http://news.yahoo.com/us-officials-no-delays-rescue-effort-libya-223118242.html) ---
**Author:** ![bbonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecb155/32.png) [@bbonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbonden)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/46 "2012-11-02T06:50:49Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The whole “cover-up” idea is incoherent. This isn’t hard. Every relevant portion of the US government (State, DoD, CIA) knew, in real time during the attack, that the attack was a pre-planned assault perpetrated by al-Qaeda affiliates. From the yahoo cite above: > [@](#): > > The Associated Press has reported that the CIA station chief in Tripoli and a State Department official sent word to Washington \*\*during the attack \*\*citing eyewitnesses as saying it was not a film protest, but the planned work of armed militants. There was never a demonstration; there was never a relevant witness who said it was a demonstration. Yet four days later, after reviewing audio and video, and after talking to survivors - none of whom saw a demonstration, because there wasn’t one - the CIA apparently produces talking points that propose that a demonstration did in fact occur. And another day later, the US ambassador to the UN and presumptive next Secretary of State goes on a five-network media blitz to dish out fiction: > [@](#): > > “We believe that folks in Benghazi, a small number of people came to the embassy to – or to the consulate, rather, to replicate the sort of challenge that was posed in Cairo,” Rice said. “And then as that unfolded, it seems to have been hijacked, let us say, by some individual clusters of extremists who came with heavier weapons… And it then evolved from there.” [http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/ambassador-susan-rice-libya-attack-not-premeditated/](http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/ambassador-susan-rice-libya-attack-not-premeditated/) Perhaps there is an honest mistake in there somewhere. But until the CIA talking points are explained, the presentation of a fiction instead of the truth is a cover-up. The other cover-up is how State, DoD, CIA, WH - whomever - failed to deploy meaningful assets to the scene of a seven-hour running battle that was an hour’s flight away from a major naval aviation base. Literally none of the US’s anti-terrorism protocols were invoked: > [@](#): > > The official says a protocol set forth in a classified presidential directive calls for the Counterterrorism Security Group (CSG) to be convened in the event of a possible terrorist attack. According to a public military document, the directive was designed to “synchronize the efforts of all the government agencies that have a role to play in the Global War on Terrorism.” > > The Administration also didn’t call on the only interagency, on-call, short notice team poised to respond to terrorist incidents worldwide: the Foreign Emergency Support Team (FEST). FEST’s seasoned experts leave within four hours of notification and can provide “the fastest assistance possible.” [http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250\_162-57544026/sources-key-task-force-not-convened-during-benghazi-consulate-attack/?pageNum=1&tag=page](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57544026/sources-key-task-force-not-convened-during-benghazi-consulate-attack/?pageNum=1&tag=page) (Although the “classified presidential directive” does explain a point that befuddled me: why it mattered whether the attack was classified as terrorism. If the description of the directive is accurate, a “possible terrorist attack” leads to the invocation of a mandatory protocol that was not invoked. Hence - possibly - the games over the words used to describe the attack.) It would be nice to know why Geraldo believes that there were no AC-130s available at Sigonella. There were at least two there in the spring. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/us-deploys-low-flying-attack-planes-in-libya/2011/03/26/AF9grPqB\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/us-deploys-low-flying-attack-planes-in-libya/2011/03/26/AF9grPqB_story.html) At a minimum, though, Sigonella had aircraft and armed predators that could have been put on station in Libya, but apparently were not. One thing that we are learning, though, is that Hillary is inching closer to becoming the designated fall guy, if the leaks are any indication. From the CBS News cite: > [@](#): > > Absent coordination from Counterterrorism Security Group, a senior U.S. counterterrorism official says the response to the crisis became more confused. The official says the FBI received a call during the attack representing Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and requesting agents be deployed. The FBI !?! Likewise, Leon Panetta is moving from “we didn’t have enough information to put lives at risk” (yesterday’s story) to a new version in which DoD would have gone in, if only State had given the word: > [@](#): > > “The State Department is responsible for assessing security at its diplomatic installations and for requesting support from other government agencies if they need it,” a senior U.S. Defense official said. “There was no request from the Department of State to intervene militarily on the night of the attack.” [http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/01/new-details-on-benghazi.html](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/11/01/new-details-on-benghazi.html) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/47 "2012-11-02T07:08:13Z")
> [@bbonden](#): > > There was never a demonstration; there was never a relevant witness who said it was a demonstration. i linked you to several articles across several sources who all had multiple corroborating eye witness accounts there was, in fact, a protest–either started by the militants to obfuscate the attack OR _by_ the assailants because this attack was prompted by their outrage. you seem utterly incapable of grasping the concept it just might be true the militants were in fact upset about the film and their motivation grew from that outrage–or they otherwise seized on that opportunity to attack. you have not provided any counterclaims by eye witnesses on the ground at the time that corroborate there was not any sort of protest to any degree as you claim. i get the impression you are so investing in this idea that no amount of facts, testimony or first hand accounts of the events will convince you of what might have really happened. you are dogmatically stuck on this idea no one in Libya cared about the video and that somecrazyhow these militant islamist paramilitary are so divorced from emotion and religious zealotry that they didn’t, not even for a second, have any concern, ill will or negative feelings about the video. you seem to DESPERATELY need your point-of-view to be the case, to the point you dismiss what people who were actually there said they saw in favor of conspiracy theory. so, i for one and dismissing you as a conspiracy theorist who can’t be bothered with realities that conflict with your ideologies. have fun with it. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/48 "2012-11-02T07:15:42Z")
[http://theforvm.org/diary/jordan/were-there-protests-benghazi-attack-updated](http://theforvm.org/diary/jordan/were-there-protests-benghazi-attack-updated) \ ***According to the New York Times, and unfortunately for ever-hopeful Republican propagandists, the consulate attackers who killed Ambassador Stevens were local militants, not al Qaeda fighters, and they were acting out of anger in response to the video, not carrying out a pre-planned & coordinated attack. This is according to the words of the attackers themselves, to video evidence, and to accounts from local Libyans in Benghazi who know the attackers, know the militias, and know something about their motivations.** ``` To those on the ground, the circumstances of the attack are hardly a mystery. Most of the attackers made no effort to hide their faces or identities, and during the assault some acknowledged to a Libyan journalist working for The New York Times that they belonged to [Ansar al-Shariah]. And their attack drew a crowd, some of whom cheered them on, some of whom just gawked, and some of whom later looted the compound. The fighters said at the time that they were moved to act because of the video, which had first gained attention across the region after a protest in Egypt that day. The assailants approvingly recalled a 2006 assault by local Islamists that had destroyed an Italian diplomatic mission in Benghazi over a perceived insult to the prophet. In June the group staged a similar attack against the Tunisian Consulate over a different film, according to the Congressional testimony of the American security chief at the time, Eric A. Nordstrom. At a news conference the day after the ambassador and three other Americans were killed, a spokesman for Ansar al-Shariah praised the attack as the proper response to such an insult to Islam. “We are saluting our people for this zeal in protecting their religion, to grant victory to the prophet,” the spokesman said. “The response has to be firm.” Other Benghazi militia leaders who know the group say its leaders and ideology are all homegrown. Those leaders, including Ahmed Abu Khattala and Mohammed Ali Zahawi, fought alongside other commanders against Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi. Their group provides social services and guards a hospital. And they openly proselytize for their brand of puritanical Islam and political vision. They profess no interest in global fights against the West or distant battles aimed at removing American troops from the Arabian Peninsula. ``` \*\*As the facts become clearer it is more and more apparent that the Obama administration’s handling of this case has been largely accurate, and appropriately cautious. \*\*It appears that the attack _was_ in response to the video, that it _was_ a relatively spontaneous and improvised attack, and that it was not a coordinated terror strike of the kind associated with global terror groups. The connection with Al Qaeda in the Maghreb appears to be tenuous, and attributing this attack to al Qaeda, the way Republicans have rushed to do, only puts an entirely undeserved notch in that organization’s belt. ``` Other Benghazi militia leaders who know Ansar al-Shariah say it was capable of carrying out the attack by itself with only a few hours’ planning, and as recently as June one of its leaders, Mr. Zahawi, declared that it could destroy the American Mission. United States intelligence officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, have said they intercepted boastful phone calls after the fact from attackers at the mission to individuals affiliated with Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb. But they have also said that so far they had found no evidence of planning or instigation by the group. James Clapper, the director of national intelligence, described the participation of individuals “linked to groups affiliated with or sympathetic with Al Qaeda” — acknowledging, at best, a tenuous or indirect link. “It is a promiscuous use of ‘Al Qaeda,’ ” Michael Hanna, a researcher at the Century Foundation, said of those charging that Al Qaeda was behind this attack. “It can mean anything or nothing at all.” ``` - according to guards who were present, part of the conflicting information was due to the fact the protest and attacks were so interwoven, so they describe the start of the protest as the start of the attack. i think the “final word” would be the people who did this, THEIR words, and THEIR words are it was in protest. sooooo. ---
**Author:** ![bbonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecb155/32.png) [@bbonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbonden)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/49 "2012-11-02T07:33:33Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > you are dogmatically stuck on this idea no one in Libya cared about the video I haven’t written one word about the video. How do I know what the attackers’ motivations were? What I do know is that there was no protest, no demonstration – just a company-sized multi-prong coordinated surprise attack, which led to a seven-hour running gunbattle. Speaking of which, these are your words: > [@](#): > > if what you are saying is true–that a battle waged for some amount of time, that the US was aware of it for any substantial portion and at that point denied re-enforcements–that’s not a cover up. that’s dereliction of duty on a gross scale. so if you can substantiate it with something like cites, memos, some kind of hard proof, that’d help. I have provided links showing: [ul] [li]“battle waged for some amount of time”: seven+ hours[/li][li]“US was aware of it for any substantial portion”: live audio throughout, live video for five+ hours, call from the Ambassador personally asking for reinforcements[/li][li]“at that point denied reinforcements”: DoD not requested, CSG not convened, FEST not mobilized, hostage rescue team told to stand down, no air assets engaged, seven-person team from Tripoli stuck at Benghazi airport for more than three hours[/ul][/li] Can we agree that there was, to again use your phrase, “dereliction of duty on a gross scale” somewhere in the US chain of command? And since we don’t know where that dereliction occurred, isn’t there a cover-up? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/50 "2012-11-02T07:33:43Z")
> [@bbonden](#): > > This isn’t hard. Yes, I imagine it’s quite easy for you to spew horseshit without caring if it’s factual or not. You’re screaming at clouds. The cover-up isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![bbonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecb155/32.png) [@bbonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbonden)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/51 "2012-11-02T07:44:17Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Yes, I imagine it’s quite easy for you to spew horseshit without caring if it’s factual or not. Classy. Any time that you want to challenge a fact, or provide a cite, feel free. ---
**Author:** ![bbonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecb155/32.png) [@bbonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbonden)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/52 "2012-11-02T07:49:15Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > [http://theforvm.org/diary/jordan/were-there-protests-benghazi-attack-updated](http://theforvm.org/diary/jordan/were-there-protests-benghazi-attack-updated) With all respect due to “Jordan” and his blog, here is a news-gathering organization reporting nine days after Jordan’s rant: > [@](#): > > U.S. intelligence believes that assailants connected to al Qaeda in Iraq were among the core group that attacked the diplomatic mission in Benghazi, a U.S. government official told CNN [http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/24/world/benghazi-al-qaeda-in-iraq/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/24/world/benghazi-al-qaeda-in-iraq/index.html) And as further clarification, everyone agrees that the preponderance of the attackers were from a home-grown (but al-Qaeda affiliated) Libyan militia who did not attempt to hide their identity. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/53 "2012-11-02T08:05:21Z")
> [@bbonden](#): > > How do I know what the attackers’ motivations were? > > What I do know is that there was no protest, no demonstration – just a company-sized multi-prong coordinated surprise attack, which led to a seven-hour running gunbattle. > > Speaking of which, these are your words: > Can we agree that there was, to again use your phrase, “dereliction of duty on a gross scale” somewhere in the US chain of command? > > And since we don’t know where that dereliction occurred, isn’t there a cover-up? you know their motivation because they have been interviewed. _On Oct. 16, David Kirkpatrick of the New York Times [reported](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/16/world/africa/election-year-stakes-overshadow-nuances-of-benghazi-investigation.html)from Cairo:_ > [@](#): > > To Libyans who witnessed the assault and know the attackers, there is little doubt what occurred: a well-known group of local Islamist militants struck the United States Mission without any warning or protest, and they did it in retaliation for the video. That is what the fighters said at the time, speaking emotionally of their anger at the video without mentioning Al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden or the terrorist strikes of 11 years earlier. And it is an explanation that tracks with their history as members of a local militant group determined to protect Libya from Western influence. … The assailants approvingly recalled a 2006 assault by local Islamists that had destroyed an Italian diplomatic mission in Benghazi over a perceived insult to the prophet. In June the group staged a similar attack against the Tunisian Consulate over a different film. … Other Benghazi militia leaders who know the group say its leaders and ideology are all homegrown. … [T]hey openly proselytize for their brand of puritanical Islam and political vision. They profess no interest in global fights against the West or distant battles aimed at removing American troops from the Arabian Peninsula. this was [corroborated](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-libya-attack-20121020,0,95514.story)across multiple news agencies. you have pigeon-holed what you _need_ protest to mean and have convoluted it to mean “not violence.” this was a protest. a violent protest, a seized opportunity. _A U.S. intelligence official [adds](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203400604578071302911132288.html):_ > [@](#): > > "There isn’t any intelligence that the attackers pre-planned their assault days or weeks in advance. … The bulk of available information supports the early assessment that the attackers launched their assault opportunistically after they learned about the violence at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo.” so can we agree it was dereliction of duty? no. according to the CBS report, backed up by NRP, NYtimes and a bazillion other reputable sources, by the time they had eyes on the situation, everyone was dead. the scenario you laid out was they were alive and battling and needed back up. but the reality is they were dead and there was nothing anyone could do by the time a drone caught visuals. so there’s not a cover-up, there was the GOP’s immediate, insane jump to conclusions–forcefully demanding answers when those involved were delicately trying to suss out what was true, rumor, lies, and bullshit-- a hodgepodge of mixed and conflicting information–propagated by people who had no actual factual information to start with–fueling speculation and disinformation, and a further GOP desperation to conclude this was some kind of giant fuck up. a desperation so prolific you (they) bog down in an absurd mishigas of nuance, nitpicking every single word anyone said, nitpicking definition, nitpicking minutia in a feeble attempt to support foregone conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/54 "2012-11-02T08:09:11Z")
> [@bbonden](#): > > Classy. I’m not the one trying to score political points by dragging the corpses of our people out and shaking them. > [@](#): > > Any time that you want to challenge a fact, or provide a cite, feel free. dontbesojumpy is doing a good job, feel free to focus thataway. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/55 "2012-11-02T08:10:15Z")
> [@bbonden](#): > > With all respect due to “Jordan” and his blog, here is a news-gathering organization reporting nine days after Jordan’s rant: > > [http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/24/world/benghazi-al-qaeda-in-iraq/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/24/world/benghazi-al-qaeda-in-iraq/index.html) > > And as further clarification, everyone agrees that the preponderance of the attackers were from a home-grown (but al-Qaeda affiliated) Libyan militia who did not attempt to hide their identity. again with the grasping at straws. the blog post said “the connection with al qaeda appears to be tenuous.” your cite corroborates that. it said maybe a dozen of the 40 had “ties” to al qaeda–not _were_. TIES. and 12 of 40 does not a preponderance make. so…your point was…what? that he was dead-on? yes. yes he was. thank you for corroborating that. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/56 "2012-11-02T09:51:39Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > this was [corroborated](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-libya-attack-20121020,0,95514.story)across multiple news agencies. > you have pigeon-holed what you _need_ protest to mean and have convoluted it to mean “not violence.” this was a protest. a violent protest, a seized opportunity. This is one of the most idiotic assertions I have ever seen on this board, and that’s saying a lot. And John Brown was protesting slavery at Harper’s Ferry, too, I guess. What point do you think you’re countering, by the way? bbonden’s seems to be that this was a coordinated military attack, not a demonstration that got out of hand. (bbonden, BTW, **with facts** has done an outstanding job in this thread. Fighting ignorance indeed. The cognitive dissonance this seems to be creating is actually pretty amusing. “There were only 12 of the 40 with ties to al-Qaeda! That’s barely worth mentioning!” 😃 Lobohan plays the “you’re disrespecting these brave Americans” card, instead of actually countering anything. The reaction is actually instructive. It started out as calm debate, and now it feels desperate. And I don’t mean bbonden.) ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/57 "2012-11-02T13:26:37Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > This is one of the most idiotic assertions I have ever seen on this board, and that’s saying a lot. And John Brown was protesting slavery at Harper’s Ferry, too, I guess. I don’t want to debate the definition of “protest,” but **bbonden** ’s larger point seems to be that the attack was NOT a response to the video. Whether you call it an attack or a protest or an act of terror, it’s appears to me that the militia was in fact motivated by the video, which validates much of what the Obama administration said about the attack in the weeks following. Certain people seem to really want this to be an unrelated terrorist attack, coincidentally timed with protests in the region, because that means that the Administration was wrong to tie the attack to the video. But to do so is to ignore testimony from eyewitnesses. ---
**Author:** ![bbonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecb155/32.png) [@bbonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbonden)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/58 "2012-11-02T13:49:06Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > according to the CBS report, backed up by NRP, NYtimes and a bazillion other reputable sources, by the time they had eyes on the situation, everyone was dead. Categorically false. The first drone was overhead at 11:11 pm on September 11. Glenn Doherty and Tyrone Woods were killed more than six hours later, at 5:15 am on September 12. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/david-ignatius-cias-benghazi-timeline-reveals-errors-but-no-evidence-of-conspiracy/2012/11/01/a84c4024-2471-11e2-9313-3c7f59038d93\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/david-ignatius-cias-benghazi-timeline-reveals-errors-but-no-evidence-of-conspiracy/2012/11/01/a84c4024-2471-11e2-9313-3c7f59038d93_story.html) Of course, Washington had calls much earlier than the drone got there - including at least one call from the Ambassador - and had real-time audio the entire night. The sum total of the State/CIA/DoD response to the event was to send a seven-person team from Tripoli at 12:30 pm on September 12 - three hours after the attack started - and to send that team with such urgency that it spent almost four hours at the Benghazi airport after arriving on that side of the country. (This is not a criticism of the team, but the rules of engagement under which they were sent.) All the while, air assets apparently remained grounded and a hostage-rescue response team was prepped and then told to stand down. ---
**Author:** ![bbonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecb155/32.png) [@bbonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbonden)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/59 "2012-11-02T14:19:01Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I don’t want to debate the definition of “protest,” but **bbonden** ’s larger point seems to be that the attack was NOT a response to the video. I have never, not once, mentioned the video. I have never, not once, opined on the motivation of the attackers. My “larger point” is that the response to the Benghazi attack was characterized by gross incompetence, or cover-ups, or - most likely - both. That holds true whether the attackers were motivated by a four-month old youtube video, by the phases of the moon, or by the failure of their mothers to provide a loving home life. If you want me to speculate on the motivation of the attackers, though, I’d start by querying why al Qaeda in Iraq had members on the ground in Benghazi. And I would ask whether their presence was connected to al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri’s public call, one day earlier, for Libyans to exact revenge for the June drone-strike death of Libyan-born al Qaeda #2 Abu Yahya al-Libi. > [@](#): > > Zawahiri urged Muslims and particularly Libyans to take revenge for the killing of Libi. > > “His blood urges you and incites you to fight and kill the crusaders,” he said. [http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/11/us-security-qaeda-idUSBRE88A04L20120911](http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/11/us-security-qaeda-idUSBRE88A04L20120911) But that’s just one of those coincidences, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![Stately\_Greek\_Automaton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aca169/32.png) [@Stately\_Greek\_Automaton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stately_Greek_Automaton)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/60 "2012-11-02T15:40:21Z")
> [@bbonden](#): > > Categorically false. > > The first drone was overhead at 11:11 pm on September 11. Glenn Doherty and Tyrone Woods were killed more than six hours later, at 5:15 am on September 12. > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/david-ignatius-cias-benghazi-timeline-reveals-errors-but-no-evidence-of-conspiracy/2012/11/01/a84c4024-2471-11e2-9313-3c7f59038d93\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/david-ignatius-cias-benghazi-timeline-reveals-errors-but-no-evidence-of-conspiracy/2012/11/01/a84c4024-2471-11e2-9313-3c7f59038d93_story.html) > > Of course, Washington had calls much earlier than the drone got there - including at least one call from the Ambassador - and had real-time audio the entire night. > > The sum total of the State/CIA/DoD response to the event was to send a seven-person team from Tripoli at 12:30 pm on September 12 - three hours after the attack started - and to send that team with such urgency that it spent almost four hours at the Benghazi airport after arriving on that side of the country. (This is not a criticism of the team, but the rules of engagement under which they were sent.) > > All the while, air assets apparently remained grounded and a hostage-rescue response team was prepped and then told to stand down. My reading of that timeline leads me to believe that the biggest problem in resolving the situation was due to reliance on local forces. The delay at the airport also seems to be due, in part, to Libyan officials. Although I’m sure it would be grand and wonderful not to have to rely on locals, it also seems like a rather unrealistic proposition. Also, I fail to see where CIA agents were told to stand down. Could you clarify that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384.md?page=4)