# What's the "final" word on the Benghazi embassy attack? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 31, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384 "2012-10-31T00:39:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/121 "2012-11-13T05:21:40Z")
I don’t know! ---
**Author:** ![bbonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecb155/32.png) [@bbonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbonden)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/122 "2012-11-13T18:51:37Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > OK, this is rich. You want to know why assets weren’t moved to Libya in response to an attack that came about because of a protest in Cairo over the video, while steadfastly criticizing Obama for an attack that you maintain had nothing to do with the video. Do you even listen to yourself? What an odd response. I have not criticized Obama, let alone “steadfastly criticiz[ed]” him anywhere in this thread. To quote myself in Post #6, “bad things happen even to good Presidents.” I did not question why assets “weren’t moved to _Libya_”; I queried about the availability of rapid-response assets “on September 11 across the highly unstable southern Mediterranean front.” It was not a point about beefier security in Benghazi itself (that potentially is a separate issue, but one not raised by me in this thread). It was about the overall preparedness in the middle of a tinderbox region. There were many times for someone to have had foresight here: [ul] [li]The Arab Spring has led to increased Islamic fundamentalism, anti-westernism and open al Qaeda affiliations. The US should have assets ready to across the region generally. It didn’t.[/li] [li]September 11 is a well-recognized anniversary notable to an organization (al Qaeda) that revels in the symbolic. The US should have had assets ready in the most critical areas (e.g., the areas that were unstable and known to have al Qaeda sympathizers and little local police capability). It didn’t.[/li] [li]When the head of al Qaeda used September 10 to eulogize a comrade who fell in June, and called on Libyans in particular to avenge that death, the US should have double-checked its Libyan security. We’ve seen no evidence that it did.[/li] [li]When the Cairo embassy walls are breached by a mob led by the brother of the head of al Qaeda, and the US flag torn down and replaced by an “al Qaeda” flag, the US should have put all local (local = most able to be in Cairo on short notice) on alert. We’ve seen no evidence that it did.[/li] [li]When the Libyan consulate was breached, the US should have done what it could - and other whatever rules of engagement were necessary - to get defensive assets on site. It didn’t.[/li][/ul] In one of Leon Panetta’s news conferences about Benghazi, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs excused DoD’s non-performance on the ground that it was too busy: “It was 9/11 everywhere in the world.” [http://thehill.com/blogs/defcon-hill/operations/264129-panetta-critics-engaging-in-monday-morning-quarterbacking-on-libya](http://thehill.com/blogs/defcon-hill/operations/264129-panetta-critics-engaging-in-monday-morning-quarterbacking-on-libya) Is there a more damning statement possible? He is identifying the day as one of special significance and heightened vigilance – while acknowledging complete impotence in perhaps the only location in which a US diplomatic mission exists within artillery range of an al Qaeda affiliate’s headquarters. Gross incompetence, cover-up or both. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/123 "2012-11-13T21:53:06Z")
> [@bbonden](#): > > Is there a more damning statement possible? He is identifying the day as one of special significance and heightened vigilance – while acknowledging complete impotence in perhaps the only location in which a US diplomatic mission exists within artillery range of an al Qaeda affiliate’s headquarters. > > Gross incompetence, cover-up or both. Nah , like a commenter on that article said: “And therefore Bush should had stopped [the original] 911”, Many on the left do think there was gross incompetency and then it was compounded by the bigger one of Bush’s decision to use the incident to then attack Iraq. Perhaps you think then that we should had done the same? Most people really do have a high threshold about what gross incompetency is, clearly you are not aware of what those levels are. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/124 "2012-11-13T23:08:23Z")
> [@Cardinal](#): > > **What’s the “final” word on the Benghazi embassy attack?** The final word on that, no quote-marks necessary, is [“manufactroversy.”](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Swiftboating) > [@](#): > > A **manufactroversy** [1] is a manufactured controversy. > > A manufactroversy can be a form of denialism: pretending that a controversy exists over something which is, in fact, not in debate by anyone who has the slightest grasp of the facts, but which a number of people wish to deny for religious, political, or other reasons. The usual motive for this is to attempt to give the appearance that the facts are still up for debate. Another kind is the manufactured “scandal”: blowing a non-issue out of proportion. > > Often related to the “tell both sides” method of reporting, where only one side has any evidence, so the reporter searches out a crank just so they can tell another side. > > This concept is also illustrated through what one editor would describe as “fill-in-the-blank outrage” by American Christian fundamentalists. Examples of this include fundie leaders suddenly declaring things as diverse as environmentalism, feminism, gay rights, socialism, etc. to be threats to Christianity, unscriptural, unholy, or some other version of “wahhh” when there is no indication that Christians as a whole considered these things threatening over the nearly 2000 years of the religion’s existence. Until just now, of course. > > Were one cynical, one might posit that these fundies are being manipulated by their leaders and by political opportunists in order to further ideological goals or to sucker money out of the masses. But when has that ever been an issue? > > The term “swiftboating” is often used in American media due to the smear campaign against John Kerry launched by the organization Swift Boat Veterans for “Truth.” ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/125 "2012-11-14T00:34:30Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Both him and **Adaher** have been MIA since the election-I wonder why? Indeed - his last posts were in the morning of Nov 6. What else was happening that day? He seemed to be conjecturing that morning about Romney serving two terms. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/126 "2012-11-14T00:43:25Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Indeed - his last posts were in the morning of Nov 6. What else was happening that day? > > He seemed to be conjecturing that morning about Romney serving two terms. I’m thinking that his was one of the credit cards that Romney cancelled. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/127 "2012-11-14T17:05:09Z")
> [@bbonden](#): > > In one of Leon Panetta’s news conferences about Benghazi, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs excused DoD’s non-performance on the ground that it was too busy: “It was 9/11 everywhere in the world.”… > Is there a more damning statement possible? He is identifying the day as one of special significance and heightened vigilance – while acknowledging complete impotence in perhaps the only location in which a US diplomatic mission exists within artillery range of an al Qaeda affiliate’s headquarters. I think there are lots more damning statements. It’s a pretty good observation that it was 9/11 everywhere. The US could have airplane hijacking, truck bombs in tunnels, increased attacks on barracks throughout the world, ship loads of ANFO detonating under a bridge, sniper attacks on civilians, bombs in the New York subways, and on and on. They needed heightened security everywhere. They had had riots the day before in other middle-east cities, should they have pulled security from there? This is just Monday-morning quarterbacking. The cries of incompetence are particularly ridiculous given the much more serious attacks that occurred under Republican administrations. Sure they could have done better and somewhere in the chain of command there will be consequences, but to make the death of four people into an issue of the overall competence of the Obama administration is just dumb. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/128 "2012-11-15T22:17:15Z")
Not sure if this is the appropriate thread but [this seem relevant to the topic](http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/11/15/republicans_skip_benghazi_hearing_complain_about_lack_of_information_on_benghazi): > [@foreignpolicy.com](#): > > **Republicans skip Benghazi hearing; complain about lack of information on Benghazi**. > This week, a number of Republican senators have strongly criticized the administration for failing to properly explain the circumstances surrounding the Sept. 11 attack on the U.S. mission in Benghazi. Some of those senators failed to show up for a briefing on the attack Wednesday. > […] > although McCain had time to speak on the Senate floor and on television about the lack of information provided to Congress about the attack, he didn’t attend the classified briefing for senators Wednesday given to the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, of which he is a member. > […] > Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY), another Homeland Security committee member who was on television complaining about the lack of Benghazi information, also did not show up for the Wednesday hearing. Paul did a CNN interview from the Capitol building Wednesday in which said he had questions about the anti-Islam video, the lack of Marines in Libya, and diplomatic security. At one point he says, “I don’t know enough of the details.” ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/129 "2012-11-15T22:21:55Z")
Well this makes sense. How can the Republican senators possibly keep complaining about the lack of information, if they go to a briefing for information? It would totally mess up their complaint. What would they have then? Nothing. And that would make the baby Jesus cry. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/130 "2012-11-16T04:15:46Z")
God, this thing. i’ve never seen anyone try so hard to win by losing. i cannot wait until this is a non-news event…but i assure you i will constantly remind my republican conspiracy-monger friends about how _certain_ they were. …by friends i mean parents ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/131 "2012-11-16T04:35:10Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Well this makes sense. How can the Republican senators possibly keep complaining about the lack of information, if they go to a briefing for information? “I’d rather have my grievance!” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/132 "2012-11-24T22:46:52Z")
So… Do we have a final word yet? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/133 "2012-11-24T22:57:58Z")
I’m not sure how you spell it, but it’s the sound a whoopie cushion makes. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/134 "2012-11-25T00:08:52Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I’m not sure how you spell it, but it’s the sound a whoopie cushion makes. If a whoopie cushion makes a sound, but there are no Repulicans still around who care to listen, is that still a sound??? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/135 "2012-11-27T00:40:07Z")
I think the perfect “final” word should come from Thomas E. Ricks, veteran defense reporter and author when he was invited to Fox News: [http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/26/guest-on-fox-news-to-discuss-benghazi-attack-is-given-a-quick-exit/](http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/26/guest-on-fox-news-to-discuss-benghazi-attack-is-given-a-quick-exit/) > [@](#): > > After Mr. Ricks said that he thought that “Benghazi generally was hyped, by this network especially,” Mr. Scott homed in on the word “hype,” asking, “When you have four people dead, including the first U.S. ambassador in more than 30 years, how do you call that hype?” > > Mr. Ricks answered, “How many security contractors died in Iraq? Do you know?” > > Mr. Scott said he did not know. > > “Nobody does, because nobody cared,” Mr. Ricks said. “We know that several hundred died, but there was never an official count done of security contractors dead in Iraq. So when I see this focus on what was essentially a small firefight, I think, No. 1, I’ve covered a lot of firefights, it’s impossible to figure out what happens in them sometimes. And second, I think that the emphasis on Benghazi has been extremely political, partly because Fox was operating as a wing of the Republican Party.” > > That was the end of the segment. Not likely to be invited to FOX soon. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/136 "2012-11-27T03:42:49Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I think the perfect “final” word should come from Thomas E. Ricks, veteran defense reporter and author when he was invited to Fox News: > > [Guest on Fox News to Discuss Benghazi Attack Is Given a Quick Exit - The New York Times](http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/26/guest-on-fox-news-to-discuss-benghazi-attack-is-given-a-quick-exit/) > Not likely to be invited to FOX soon. 🙂 Perhaps we should send Mr. Scott some Tucks Medicated Pads. He’s got to still be hurting from that one. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/137 "2012-11-27T15:15:31Z")
Quick question: Does anyone else feel that the big problem about Benghazi is the the U.S. apparently learned nothing from 1979 about embassy/consulate security during anti-American protests? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/138 "2012-11-27T17:19:24Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Quick question: > Does anyone else feel that the big problem about Benghazi is the the U.S. apparently learned nothing from 1979 about embassy/consulate security during anti-American protests? As I mentioned, there was some fine-sounding legislation passed that laid out security requirements for new embassy construction worldwide. These included specs for wall thicknesses, street setbacks, blast windows and a whole host of other measures. Then, because of the enormous cost, congress could only fund it piecemeal. As a result, very few embassies meet the requirements. I can think of three off the top of my head: Cairo, Iraq, and Uganda (a recent construction). A backwater shithole like Libya is going to be way down the list for funding new embassies, I would think, and even if it’s not, the embassy would come before the consulate. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/139 "2012-11-27T19:23:29Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > As I mentioned, there was some fine-sounding legislation passed that laid out security requirements for new embassy construction worldwide. These included specs for wall thicknesses, street setbacks, blast windows and a whole host of other measures. Then, because of the enormous cost, congress could only fund it piecemeal. As a result, very few embassies meet the requirements. I can think of three off the top of my head: Cairo, Iraq, and Uganda (a recent construction). A backwater shithole like Libya is going to be way down the list for funding new embassies, I would think, and even if it’s not, the embassy would come before the consulate. But that doesn’t account for the minimal security force ill-prepared for an attack and the strategy of holing up in the safe room rather than coordinating a defense with extraction. With everything going on the previous month the consulate should have been ready for something. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384/140 "2012-11-27T20:01:00Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > With everything going on the previous month the consulate should have been ready for something. Well, to be fair, the money had already been spent installing the cameras with a direct feed to the White House so that Obama could sit in his hot tub and chortle when he watched good American Patriots killed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-final-word-on-the-benghazi-embassy-attack/639384.md?page=8)