# What's the greatest genre franchise? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 11, 2017, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-greatest-genre-franchise/793352 "2017-08-11T18:28:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-greatest-genre-franchise/793352/21 "2017-08-12T13:51:35Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I’ll give Marvel third if it counts, I would lean towards it not being Sci-Fi/Fantasy though. Then what would it be, then? Sci-Fi seems perfectly reasonable (a subgenre to be exact). ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-greatest-genre-franchise/793352/22 "2017-08-12T14:17:19Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Then what would it be, then? Sci-Fi seems perfectly reasonable (a subgenre to be exact). Super-Hero comic is its genre. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-greatest-genre-franchise/793352/23 "2017-08-12T19:49:54Z")
I’ll clarify some things 1. You can define “great” however you want. Your favorite? The most successful? Whatever “great” means to you. 2. I used “Genre” as a shorthand for Fantastical. Otherworldly. But that could include things that have ramped up over the top action like James Bond. 3. “Franchise” means you can include whatever media you want, Movies, TV, Books, Games, Toys etc. and ideally the Franchise would have crossed over and had success in multiple media. 4. I tried to include the “tent poll” Franchises but if I had thought about it for more than four seconds before posting I probably would have included Marvel (and maybe then DC) as separate options of their own. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-greatest-genre-franchise/793352/24 "2017-08-12T20:14:49Z")
Can you clarify what you mean by “what” and “the”? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-greatest-genre-franchise/793352/25 "2017-08-12T20:28:25Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > The way the OP is describing it, I guess Clint Eastwood doing sequel after sequel after sequel after sequel as Harry Callahan of the SFPD would count: he never has to deal with aliens or wizards or alien wizards; he only ever faces mundane criminals, and he responds with little more than detective work and pistol marksmanship; and hundreds of millions of dollars obligingly rolled in. Yet, I think of “crime drama” or “police action movie” as a genre. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-greatest-genre-franchise/793352/26 "2017-08-12T20:35:26Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Yet, I think of “crime drama” or “police action movie” as a genre. I agree with you. But the OP for some reason defined it by saying: > [@](#): > > “Genre” of course being Sci Fi/Fantasy or otherwise otherworldly. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-greatest-genre-franchise/793352/27 "2017-08-12T23:54:34Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I agree with you. But the OP **for some reason** defined it by saying: Because when media creators refer to Fantasy or Sci-Fi novels, movies, art, books, etc, they call it simply “genre” material. It’s been the go-to blanket term for it for a couple of decades. ---
**Author:** ![zombywoof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9e8a1a/32.png) [@zombywoof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zombywoof)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-greatest-genre-franchise/793352/28 "2017-08-13T00:40:42Z")
If you use the normal definition of “genre” rather than “Sci Fi/Fantasy or otherwise otherworldly”, how about the 1000+ episode (and counting) Law & Order franchise? ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-greatest-genre-franchise/793352/29 "2017-08-13T03:30:27Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Because when media creators refer to Fantasy or Sci-Fi novels, movies, art, books, etc, they call it simply “genre” material. It’s been the go-to blanket term for it for a couple of decades. Yeah I thought it was a common term. Either way cops and robbers stuff would be fine if that is your pick. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-greatest-genre-franchise/793352/30 "2017-08-13T05:31:43Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Godzilla: > > 1954 Godzilla (Godzilla, King of The Monsters) > 1955 Godzilla Raids Again > 1962 King Kong vs. Godzilla > 1964 Mothra vs. Godzilla > 1964 Ghidorah, the Three-Headed Monster > 1965 Invasion of Astro-Monster (Godzilla vs. Monster Zero) > 1966 Ebirah, Horror of the Deep (Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster) > 1967 Son of Godzilla > 1968 Destroy All Monsters > 1969 All Monsters Attack (Godzilla’s Revenge) > 1971 Godzilla vs. Hedorah (Godzilla vs. the Smog Monster) > 1972 Godzilla vs. Gigan > 1973 Godzilla vs. Megalon > 1974 Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla > 1975 Terror of Mechagodzilla > 1984 The Return of Godzilla (Godzilla 1985) > 1989 Godzilla vs. Biollante > 1991 Godzilla vs. King Ghidorah > 1992 Godzilla vs. Mothra (Godzilla & Mothra: The Battle for Earth) > 1993 Godzilla vs. Mechagodzilla II > 1994 Godzilla vs. SpaceGodzilla > 1995 Godzilla vs. Destoroyah > 1999 Godzilla 2000: Millennium (Godzilla 2000) > 2000 Godzilla vs. Megaguirus > 2001 Godzilla, Mothra and King Ghidorah: Giant Monsters All-Out Attack > 2002 Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla > 2003 Godzilla: Tokyo S.O.S. > 2004 Godzilla: Final Wars > 2007 Always: Sunset on Third Street 2 > 2016 Godzilla Resurgence (Shin Godzilla) > > And those are just the Japanese ones. > . Hard to beat Godzilla. But Honorable mention may have to go to [the Bowery Boys](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bowery_Boys), who appeared in one incarnation or another from 1937-58: \*\*The Bowery Boys were fictional New York City characters, portrayed by a company of New York actors, who were the subject of feature films released by Monogram Pictures from 1946 through 1958. The Bowery Boys were successors of the “East Side Kids,” who had been the subject of films since 1940. The group originated as the “Dead End Kids”, who originally appeared in the 1937 film _Dead End_. A few of the actors previously appeared together as “The Little Tough Guys.”\*\* ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-greatest-genre-franchise/793352/31 "2017-08-13T14:21:15Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Hard to beat Godzilla. But Honorable mention may have to go to [the Bowery Boys](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bowery_Boys), who appeared in one incarnation or another from 1937-58: > > \*\*The Bowery Boys were fictional New York City characters, portrayed by a company of New York actors, who were the subject of feature films released by Monogram Pictures from 1946 through 1958. > > The Bowery Boys were successors of the “East Side Kids,” who had been the subject of films since 1940. The group originated as the “Dead End Kids”, who originally appeared in the 1937 film _Dead End_. A few of the actors previously appeared together as “The Little Tough Guys.”\*\* I thought that chain of comedy started with the support characters from the original “Angels with Dirty Faces”? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-greatest-genre-franchise/793352/32 "2017-08-13T18:53:27Z")
_Angels with Dirty Faces_ was 1938, so apparently they made their first appearance the year before. They may not have been widely noticed until _Angels_ though. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-greatest-genre-franchise/793352/33 "2017-08-13T19:06:51Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > _Angels with Dirty Faces_ was 1938, so apparently they made their first appearance the year before. They may not have been widely noticed until _Angels_ though. Fair enough, I grew up with the various incarnations of the Dead End Kids, Bowery Boys, etc. showing on Sunday mornings on one of the local stations. I recall TCM talking about them starting with _Angels_. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-greatest-genre-franchise/793352/34 "2017-08-13T19:09:21Z")
I was under that impression too, but looking up _Dead End_ on Imdb, [I do see some of the Bowery Boys among the cast](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0028773/?ref_=fn_tt_tt_1). ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-greatest-genre-franchise/793352/35 "2017-08-13T20:11:31Z")
Star Trek, followed by Star Wars, followed by Marvel. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-greatest-genre-franchise/793352/36 "2017-08-13T20:32:29Z")
Doctor Who ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2017, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-greatest-genre-franchise/793352/37 "2017-08-13T21:25:23Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Because when media creators refer to Fantasy or Sci-Fi novels, movies, art, books, etc, they call it simply “genre” material. It’s been the go-to blanket term for it for a couple of decades. Yes it’s a Hollywood term. There are many “movie genres” (romcom, crime drama, period dramas) but “genre movies” are horror or sci-fi/fantasy. It was a way to look down and those not doing serious movies. “He does genre pictures.” Of course now that’s all everyone wants and it’s not an insult. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-greatest-genre-franchise/793352/38 "2017-08-14T14:03:20Z")
This is a timely discussion for me. In fact, I was contemplating starting a thread asking people what the word “genre” meant to them. It was prompted by a discussion I was having with a friend a couple weeks ago, in which he said about a particular book: “It’s not genre. It’s a regular detective story.” My immediate reaction that was, “Since when is ‘detective story’ not a genre?” But as I thought about it, it does appear that the word “genre” has been shifting in recent years to mean (or at least sometimes mean) science fiction/fantasy/horror/superhero material–geeky stuff, for want of a better term. I’m not sure that’s a change I can get behind 100 percent. For me, at least, I continue to use “genre” in the broader sense, to include more traditional genres like mysteries, westerns, war stories, romantic comedies, and so forth. Using that broader definition of “genre” (which I see **Quimiby** has given his blessing to), my answer to the OP’s question would be Sherlock Holmes. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-greatest-genre-franchise/793352/39 "2017-08-14T14:49:35Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Hard to beat Godzilla. But Honorable mention may have to go to [the Bowery Boys](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bowery_Boys), who appeared in one incarnation or another from 1937-58: > > \*\*The Bowery Boys were fictional New York City characters, portrayed by a company of New York actors, who were the subject of feature films released by Monogram Pictures from 1946 through 1958. > > The Bowery Boys were successors of the “East Side Kids,” who had been the subject of films since 1940. The group originated as the “Dead End Kids”, who originally appeared in the 1937 film _Dead End_. A few of the actors previously appeared together as “The Little Tough Guys.”\*\* I have to quibble with the last part of that “Little Tough Guys” weren’t earlier – they first showed up in 1938. [Little Tough Guys - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Tough_Guys) What started it all was Sidney Kingsley’s stage play **Dead End** , first produced in October 1935. The play first assembled the familiar faces of David and Leo Gorcey, Huntz Hall, Bobby Jordan, and Billy Halop as the Second Avenue Boys. The point was that these boys were not only literally living at a Dead End, but that their lives were also in a Dead End. Huntz Hall’s character had tuberculosis. They were tough but vulnerable and appealing. The actors reprised their roles in the 1937 William Wyler film that starred Humphrey Bogart. The kids, though, stole the show, and went on to their many later roles, beginning with 1937’s **Crime School** (made by competing studio Warner Brothers) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-greatest-genre-franchise/793352/40 "2017-08-14T15:02:35Z")
Sidney Kingsley, by the way, also wrote _Detective Story_ (1949), which depicted life in a New York police station, and which showed how a lot of it is off-the-wall, or boring, or routine, and was punctuated by much humor (besides the more serious parts). I always felt it was a big influence on _Barney Miller_ (which actually made reference to the play in one episode). The play was made into a movie in 1951 starring Kirk Douglas. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-greatest-genre-franchise/793352.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-greatest-genre-franchise/793352.md?page=3)