# What's the highest Federal Position (elected or appointed) a former 2-term POTUS could hold? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 13, 2018, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-highest-federal-position-elected-or-appointed-a-former-2-term-potus-could-hold/812324 "2018-04-13T00:01:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![D.E.S.K.Top668](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@D.E.S.K.Top668](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D.E.S.K.Top668)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-highest-federal-position-elected-or-appointed-a-former-2-term-potus-could-hold/812324/1 "2018-04-13T00:01:05Z")
So, 2020 comes and President 46 wants Obama and/or Bush 2 as part of his team. As they can’t become president if 46 is incapacitated, I assume neither could be VP (vaguely remembered from early '80’s high school classes.) So, what is the highest position a 2-term POTUS could hold? Appointed, could he be a Cabinet Member? Of course, things like Supreme Court Justice or “Presidential Advisor” are not in the line of succession, so all good there. Thank you in advance \_ DSK ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-highest-federal-position-elected-or-appointed-a-former-2-term-potus-could-hold/812324/2 "2018-04-13T00:04:23Z")
Andrew Johnson was a senator, but died before he got to sit. John Quincy Adams was a Representative for several terms. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-highest-federal-position-elected-or-appointed-a-former-2-term-potus-could-hold/812324/3 "2018-04-13T00:10:27Z")
He can be in the line of succession, such as Speaker of the House, but he would be ineligible to succeed, and would be skipped over. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-highest-federal-position-elected-or-appointed-a-former-2-term-potus-could-hold/812324/4 "2018-04-13T00:12:05Z")
I’m not sure we have a clear enough definition of “highest position” to adequately answer this. There’s the order of succession, but there are plenty of powerful positions outside of that order too. Personally, I’d probably give the distinction to Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, assuming a vacancy opened up shortly after the President’s second term wrapped up and an amenable candidate was elected, but given the nature of SCOTUS picks and the ages of presidential candidates these days, it seems unlikely to happen. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-highest-federal-position-elected-or-appointed-a-former-2-term-potus-could-hold/812324/5 "2018-04-13T00:22:48Z")
Taft will probably remain the only President to ever be the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. Presidents can do more good and make much more money by staying in semi-private life. ---
**Author:** ![pdhenry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pdhenry/32/5561_2.png) [@pdhenry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pdhenry)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-highest-federal-position-elected-or-appointed-a-former-2-term-potus-could-hold/812324/6 "2018-04-13T00:35:24Z")
Arguably a 2-term President can go on to be VP. The 22nd Amendment limits the number of times that a person can be **elected** to the office. The 12th Amendment states “no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States” - i.e. the VP must meet the requirements to serve (US born, age greater than 35, resident in US for 14 years) without regard for eligibility for election to that office. Certainly this was true before Feb 27, 1951, and the wording of 22A doesn’t change that. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-highest-federal-position-elected-or-appointed-a-former-2-term-potus-could-hold/812324/7 "2018-04-13T01:41:38Z")
Leaving every other question aside, the Speaker of the House is second in the line of presidential succession. There is nothing to prevent a former President from being elected to the House and then becoming Speaker. (IIRC, you technically don’t even have to be a member of the House to be chosen Speaker.) If both the President and Vice President died, the line of succession would simply bypass Mr. Ex-President Speaker. It was the same thing with Secretaries of State like Henry Kissinger and Madeline Albright. Nothing prevented them from holding their office, they just couldn’t become President. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-highest-federal-position-elected-or-appointed-a-former-2-term-potus-could-hold/812324/8 "2018-04-13T02:18:27Z")
I’m too lazy to link to the threads. The debate is whether the 22nd amendment’s admonition that no person can be “elected” President more than twice means that he or she couldn’t be elected Vice President (or Speaker of the House) and then succeed to the office that way. The 12th says that no person ineligible to “be” President can be Vice President. It does not say that no person eligible to succeed by other means than election cannot be Vice President. Google search these past threads. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-highest-federal-position-elected-or-appointed-a-former-2-term-potus-could-hold/812324/9 "2018-04-13T02:30:54Z")
> [@](#): > > What’s the highest Federal Position (elected or appointed) a former 2-term POTUS could hold? Secretary of State (officially), although Chief Justice would just as dandy. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-highest-federal-position-elected-or-appointed-a-former-2-term-potus-could-hold/812324/10 "2018-04-13T02:31:12Z")
I think anyone who believes the Supreme Court would not rule that a two term President is eligible to be elected as VP is fooling themselves. Any thing could happen I suppose in these partisan days, but I find this very unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-highest-federal-position-elected-or-appointed-a-former-2-term-potus-could-hold/812324/11 "2018-04-13T02:58:47Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > I think anyone who believes the Supreme Court would not rule that a two term President is eligible to be elected as VP is fooling themselves. Any thing could happen I suppose in these partisan days, but I find this very unlikely. How would such a case reach the Supreme Court? Who would have standing to file a lawsuit, and against whom? The VP nominee? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-highest-federal-position-elected-or-appointed-a-former-2-term-potus-could-hold/812324/12 "2018-04-13T03:28:35Z")
**OldGuy** , I think you might have miscounted your number of negatives, there. I assume you meant that the SCOTUS would rule that a former President cannot be VP? But in any event, the Presidency and (probably, but barely arguably) the VP are the only positions legally barred to a term-limited President, so then it just depends on what you consider “highest”: Supreme Court, House (including Speaker), Senate (including President Pro Tem), Cabinet, etc. Some might be considered unlikely, but then again, there’s precedent in Taft. Oh, and of course we also almost had a former President as First Gentleman, or whatever he would be called, if that counts as a “federal position”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-highest-federal-position-elected-or-appointed-a-former-2-term-potus-could-hold/812324/13 "2018-04-13T03:58:51Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Andrew Johnson was a senator, but died before he got to sit. > > John Quincy Adams was a Representative for several terms. John Tyler also served in the House of Representatives after his presidency. It just wasn’t ours. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-highest-federal-position-elected-or-appointed-a-former-2-term-potus-could-hold/812324/14 "2018-04-13T05:42:35Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > How would such a case reach the Supreme Court? Who would have standing to file a lawsuit, and against whom? The VP nominee? Someone impacted by a law passed with the VP’s tie-breaking vote? They would argue that the law doesn’t exist because it didn’t pass the Senate. Of course, they might never get a chance through that method. Joe Biden didn’t get to cast a single vote in the Senate during his eight years. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2018, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-highest-federal-position-elected-or-appointed-a-former-2-term-potus-could-hold/812324/15 "2018-04-13T16:15:45Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > How would such a case reach the Supreme Court? Who would have standing to file a lawsuit, and against whom? The VP nominee? I can imagine a scenario where state election officials would refuse to put a candidate on the ballot on the grounds the candidate was ineligible for that office. Then our mythical VP candidate would sue that state’s Secretary of State (or whoever is responsible for voting) and the long, torturous, winding legal process would begin.