# What's the history on the 'Hanukah Bush'? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 16, 2003, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-history-on-the-hanukah-bush/219359 "2003-12-16T18:17:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-history-on-the-hanukah-bush/219359/21 "2003-12-17T16:36:41Z")
Happy Hannukah, Happy Holidays. They’re fine. I wouldn’t stress about it. **aaslatten** , Jews should not participate in the religious festivals of other religions… whether the observance is a Christian or Germanic Pagan one is immaterial. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-history-on-the-hanukah-bush/219359/22 "2003-12-17T16:47:15Z")
**gum** , yes, “Hannukah” is a correct spelling of “Chanukah.” So is “Hanukah,” like in the thread title. The Hebrew spelling is het - nun - kapf - hei, where h is a hard h as in _hutzpah_. The other letters’ sounds are N, K, and H. (In Hebrew, vowel marks cost NIS 250 each.) ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-history-on-the-hanukah-bush/219359/23 "2003-12-17T16:52:08Z")
Yeah, it doesn’t translate really well to English, does it? ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2003, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-history-on-the-hanukah-bush/219359/24 "2003-12-17T20:54:27Z")
Thank you, **Hello Again** and \*\* Scuba\_Ben\*\*. hehehehe, at the expensive vowels. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-history-on-the-hanukah-bush/219359/25 "2003-12-18T03:09:07Z")
> [@](#): > > _Jonathan Chance_ > \*\*So inspired by the annoyance I feel at the concept of ‘Hanukah Bush’ I thought I’d ask. \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > \*\*That’s because most self-respecting Jews will not have a Hannukah bush. > > Zev Steinhardt \*\* Forgive this old libertarian…but why the vitriol, here? What harm is done to oneself by how one’s neighbor celebrates a holiday? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hello Again \* > \*\ ***aaslatten** , Jews should not participate in the religious festivals of other religions… whether the observance is a Christian or Germanic Pagan one is immaterial. \*\* I think what **aaslatten** was saying is that keeping a decorated tree _might_ not be considered so much _observing_ an element of another religion, but _co-opting_ it. Just like the christians took the tree; and the late December date for a holiday from the old pagan traditions, and took them for their own. Of course, as always, that all depends on how the _individual’s_ judgment and opinions on such matters. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hello Again \* > \*\*If you live in a heavily Jewish neighborhood, yu probably wouldn’t. The reverse would be more likely to be true (that is, if you lived in a neighborhood with few Jews, you would be more likely to see a “Channukah bush”). _Kids in heavily Jewish neighborhoods feel less pressure to conform_ (also, from my observation, the C.B. phenomenon is kid-driven). \*\* Italics mine. It’s just that…well, from this statement, couldn’t the _opposite_ be true, as well? That kids in a heavily Jewish neighborhood would feel pressure to _not_ have a “Hannukah Bush”? It could be like just trading _one_ flavor of conformity for another. Just another side of the coin, and all that. But, just in closing, let me just say that I don’t have any quams about what a person celebrates, or how, or when. Do whatever feels right for _you_, it’s no problem by me. (Not that I have any authority over the matter, or would want any.) ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-history-on-the-hanukah-bush/219359/26 "2003-12-18T04:03:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ranchoth \* > **Forgive this old libertarian…but why the vitriol, here? What harm is done to oneself by how one’s neighbor celebrates a holiday?** I don’t think **Zev** is objecting to his non-Jewish neighbors celebrating their holidays any way they choose. What he’s saying is that a self-respecting _Jew_ won’t celebrate a _Christian_ holiday or even give the appearance of celebrating one. It’s one of those golden calf deals. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-history-on-the-hanukah-bush/219359/27 "2003-12-18T04:29:14Z")
> [@](#): > > What he’s saying is that a self-respecting Jew won’t celebrate a Christian holiday or even give the appearance of celebrating one. More accurately, he’s saying that a self-respecting Jew will feel his own traditions to be adequate celebration rather than feeling “incomplete” without some form of a Christian ritual included as well. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-history-on-the-hanukah-bush/219359/28 "2003-12-18T05:05:38Z")
Just to follow up on the above, as I recall the pre-1970s press (and grade-school textbook) spelling of the holiday often began with “ch”. **samclem** , did you run the search on that term as well? ---
**Author:** ![Gamaliel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b487fb/32.png) [@Gamaliel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gamaliel)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-history-on-the-hanukah-bush/219359/29 "2003-12-18T07:42:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samclem \* > \*\*I searched one of my newspaper databases from 1900-1980, and the term _Hanukkah Bush_ turned up in three varied newspaper articles from 1975-1977. It didn’t appear before. > > If I had bothered to use one that searched the NYTimes, etc., no doubt I could have found earlier. \*\* I recall hearing the phrase during Alfred Uhry’s play “The Last Night of Ballyhoo”, which is set in Georgia in 1939, I believe. Whether or not it’s appearance there is historically accurate is another story. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-history-on-the-hanukah-bush/219359/30 "2003-12-18T08:26:03Z")
> [@](#): > > _InternetLegend_\*\*I don’t think Zev is objecting to his non-Jewish neighbors celebrating their holidays any way they choose. What he’s saying is that a self-respecting Jew won’t celebrate a Christian holiday or even give the appearance of celebrating one. > \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cmkeller \* > \*\*More accurately, he’s saying that a self-respecting Jew will feel his own traditions to be adequate celebration rather than feeling “incomplete” without some form of a Christian ritual included as well. \*\* I was referring _to_ Jewish neighbors, actually. I just thought it might be a _little_ harsh to call _any_ Jew with a Hannukah Bush “non-self respecting.” ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-history-on-the-hanukah-bush/219359/31 "2003-12-18T15:20:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > Italics mine. It’s just that…well, from this statement, couldn’t the _opposite_ be true, as well? That kids in a heavily Jewish neighborhood would feel pressure to _not_ have a “Hannukah Bush”? It could be like just trading _one_ flavor of conformity for another. Just another side of the coin, and all that. > \*\* Yes, they would feel pressure not to have a Channukah bush… because Jews who are aware of their cultural and religious heritage are aware than participating in Non-Jewish religions is specifically forbidden to Jews under Jewish law. Understand that Judaism is a legalistic religion that outlines correct and incorrect practice to a remarkably exacting degree. Whether following these dictates is a “flavor of conformity” is a matter for debate I suppose. Speaking as a non-practicing Jew, I am aware that I break many of these codes on a daily basis. However I cannot imagine a situation where I could feel comfortable bringing the practice of another religion into my home, except perhaps in the case of marrying a non-Jew who felt VERY strongly about it. It’s a biggie for me. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-history-on-the-hanukah-bush/219359/32 "2003-12-18T18:17:26Z")
But can they demonstrate to an “exacting degree” that decorating a pine tree truly amounts to practicing the Christian religion? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-history-on-the-hanukah-bush/219359/33 "2003-12-18T19:38:14Z")
Very simply, **Rancloth** , it boils down to this principle: Be proud of who you are, and honestly represent what you believe in. If you want to have a Christmas tree in your house, with lights and presents and an angel or Star of Bethlehem on top, then fine - do so. But don’t take a Christmas tree, strip it of it’s meaning (from a Christian POV) and stick it in your house and call it a “Channukah Bush.” I personally find it offensive for two reasons: (1) It misrepresents Judaism and what Channukah is about. Channukah is a holiday which represents over victory over the forces of assimiliation. Having a “Channukah Bush” completely undermines that meaning and destroys the entire _raison d’etre_ of the holiday. (2) While IANAC, I would think that many Christians would find it offensive having a sacred or semi-sacred object such as the _tannenbaum_ being shorn of it’s dignity and copied into a (in my eyes) derisive miniature version of itself. In short, if you want to celebrate Channukah, then do it the way it was meant to be done; and not in a way that completely undermines the meaning of the holiday and at the same time, demeans the holy objects of other religions. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![rivulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rivulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rivulus)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-history-on-the-hanukah-bush/219359/34 "2003-12-18T20:08:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zev\_steinhardt \* > (2) While IANAC, I would think that many Christians would find it offensive having a sacred or semi-sacred object such as the _tannenbaum_ being shorn of it’s dignity and copied into a (in my eyes) derisive miniature version of itself. > > In short, if you want to celebrate Channukah, then do it the way it was meant to be done; and not in a way that completely undermines the meaning of the holiday and at the same time, demeans the holy objects of other religions. While some Christians might consider the Christmas tree a semi-sacred object, many do not and would prefer to restrict its intrusion into more “authentic” Christmas celebrations. For example, in my former (Lutheran) congregation there was a debate over whether to allow a Christmas tree to be set up in the church during Advent and Christmas. Some argued that the tree (with its pagan or commercial associations) was acceptable in the more secular environment of the home, but not in a place of worship. It has no place in the liturgical tradition, AFAIK, and “O, Christmas tree” was not an acceptable carol in the Christmas service. I have always treated it as a fun, traditional, but basically secular and non-essential holiday item. Like stockings and chestnuts. YMMV In short, I don’t think a lot of Christians would mind one way or another if a Jewish family had a tree/bush in the home. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-history-on-the-hanukah-bush/219359/35 "2003-12-18T21:58:31Z")
And here I was thinking it referred to the once-a-year bikini wax. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-history-on-the-hanukah-bush/219359/36 "2003-12-19T03:19:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sofa King \* > \*\*Just to follow up on the above, as I recall the pre-1970s press (and grade-school textbook) spelling of the holiday often began with “ch”. **samclem** , did you run the search on that term as well? \*\* Good point, couch. I didn’t but I just did. Interesting statistics. No new cites. Searched 1940-1972. Results of total hits for various spellings as follows: Chanuka --25 Chanukah-445 ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-history-on-the-hanukah-bush/219359/37 "2003-12-19T03:44:20Z")
[ul] [li]Hanuka=0 [_]Channukah=10 [/li] [li]Chanuka=25 [_]Hannukah=42 [_]Hanukah=75 [_]Hanukkah=262 [\*]Chanukah-445[/li][/ul] Sorry about the previous post. Probably the wine in the keyboard. The newspaper database I used is over at [Ancestry.com](http://Ancestry.com). It’s a pay to play thing. It uses mostly ‘mid-America’ newspapers. I think if one searched just the New York Times and the Washington Post, etc. for the same period, the spellings might have reflected something slightly different. IN any event, there was no earlier cite for either ‘Chanukah bush/tree’ that I could find. Means little, but interesting to see how newpapers spelled ‘Chanukah’ in the time period. By the way, while Leo Rosten gives four spelling variants, he spells it ‘Chanukah’ in his text. No doubt just preference. And since someone 🙂 brought up Leo Rosten, he had a story for every occasion. Even about the duality of Chanukah and Christmas. > [@](#): > > I have it on indisputable authority that in Scarsdale, during a school celebration of Christmas, one of the children sang the carol as “God rest ye, Jerry Mandelbaum.” ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-history-on-the-hanukah-bush/219359/38 "2003-12-21T16:57:06Z")
I’m wondering about Ramadan shrubs. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-history-on-the-hanukah-bush/219359/39 "2003-12-21T19:32:03Z")
Oh sure! Open up **that** whole thing again! ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2003, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-history-on-the-hanukah-bush/219359/40 "2003-12-22T14:46:32Z")
_God Rest Ye, Jerry Mendelbaum_ is Allan Sherman’s rewrite of the old carol. He also did _The Ballad of Sir Greenbaum_ on Greensleeves, a tale of a grumbling Jewish knight. :j: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-history-on-the-hanukah-bush/219359.md?page=1)