# What's the legal penalty if any for spitting on the president? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 8, 2006, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-legal-penalty-if-any-for-spitting-on-the-president/371886 "2006-09-08T05:43:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![oy\_vay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/258eb7/32.png) [@oy\_vay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oy_vay)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-legal-penalty-if-any-for-spitting-on-the-president/371886/1 "2006-09-08T05:43:33Z")
To avoid a political argument lets say I wanted to reanimate Groover Cleveland, get him reelected, and spit on him. What’s the worst that could happen, based on past spittings what is likely to happen, and would any recent laws change the outcome? ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-legal-penalty-if-any-for-spitting-on-the-president/371886/2 "2006-09-08T08:21:45Z")
In case this is too much work for you and you prefer having others do it for you, cou can avail yourself of the services of [this website](http://www.insultthepresident.com/). As far as I know, U.S. federal law does not treat defamation of the President as a crime on its own (unlike some other jurisdictions, which have provisions that can be considered to be “successors” to the old crime of lèse majesté, defamation of the monarch). That is not to say that spitting at the President cannot be considered as libel, which may result in liability to pay damages but might also be a crime in some states. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-legal-penalty-if-any-for-spitting-on-the-president/371886/3 "2006-09-08T09:08:31Z")
Defamation? Libel? Try assault and battery. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-legal-penalty-if-any-for-spitting-on-the-president/371886/4 "2006-09-08T13:34:33Z")
Yep- it’s battery. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-legal-penalty-if-any-for-spitting-on-the-president/371886/5 "2006-09-08T14:25:01Z")
I don’t know about the president, but I do know that in prisons, inmates can be charged with assault if they spit on or throw any other bodily fluids on a staff member. Not that it stops them. . . ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-legal-penalty-if-any-for-spitting-on-the-president/371886/6 "2006-09-08T14:47:04Z")
[QUOTE=oy vay] To avoid a political argument lets say I wanted to reanimate Groover Cleveland, get him reelected, and spit on him. [/QUOTE] This example is ridiculously implausible. Cleveland already served two terms and would be inelegible for re-election. I guess that if you could suspend your disbelief enough for this to happen, you would be guilty of assault so pretty much the same as if you punched him. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-legal-penalty-if-any-for-spitting-on-the-president/371886/7 "2006-09-08T15:06:57Z")
I think “Groover Cleveland” was groovy. Spitting on anyone, President or otherwise, is an assault. And one that, in the hypothetical provided here, the Secret Service would _not_ take kindly. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-legal-penalty-if-any-for-spitting-on-the-president/371886/8 "2006-09-08T16:15:50Z")
Why assault and not battery? (I thought the distinction was contact vs. apprehension of contact). ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-legal-penalty-if-any-for-spitting-on-the-president/371886/9 "2006-09-08T16:35:50Z")
You might not want to do that. Whatever the penalty is for spitting on the President, it’s [twice as harsh](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7306268&postcount=22) for spitting on Grover Cleveland. Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-legal-penalty-if-any-for-spitting-on-the-president/371886/10 "2006-09-08T16:42:31Z")
It would just be battery I believe if all you did was spit. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-legal-penalty-if-any-for-spitting-on-the-president/371886/11 "2006-09-08T16:48:39Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] Why assault and not battery? (I thought the distinction was contact vs. apprehension of contact). [/QUOTE] Don’t treat those terms as if they are universal. Each state’s criminal code has different definitions. For instance in NJ there is no “assault and battery”. There is aggravated assault and simple assault. I have no idea what the federal code is. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-legal-penalty-if-any-for-spitting-on-the-president/371886/12 "2006-09-08T16:59:17Z")
Of course I did not use NJ as an example because it is the only criminal code I have any knowledge of. It is because I am assuming that is where the crime will take [place.](http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=205) ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-legal-penalty-if-any-for-spitting-on-the-president/371886/13 "2006-09-08T17:14:42Z")
[QUOTE=hajario] This example is ridiculously implausible. Cleveland already served two terms and would be inelegible for re-election. I guess that if you could suspend your disbelief enough for this to happen, you would be guilty of assault so pretty much the same as if you punched him. [/QUOTE] But since he died and was reanimated does that make him eligible for two more terms? more seriously, I would say it would be considered assault. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-legal-penalty-if-any-for-spitting-on-the-president/371886/14 "2006-09-08T17:16:55Z")
[QUOTE=hajario] This example is ridiculously implausible. Cleveland already served two terms and would be inelegible for re-election. I guess that if you could suspend your disbelief enough for this to happen, you would be guilty of assault so pretty much the same as if you punched him. [/QUOTE] Presidential term limits were not in place then. I would call spitting on the president battery, same as for spitting on anyone else. Flipping him the bird would be more fun and legal. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-legal-penalty-if-any-for-spitting-on-the-president/371886/15 "2006-09-08T17:20:10Z")
I shall correct myself. The limit on terms on presidents only excluded the current president, Harry Truman. Presumably a reanimated Grover Cleveland would not be eligible for reelection, nor would Abe Lincoln. If we bring back Harry Truman, then he could run as much as he wants. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-legal-penalty-if-any-for-spitting-on-the-president/371886/16 "2006-09-08T17:23:03Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] I shall correct myself. The limit on terms on presidents only excluded the current president, Harry Truman. Presumably a reanimated Grover Cleveland would not be eligible for reelection, nor would Abe Lincoln. If we bring back Harry Truman, then he could run as much as he wants. [/QUOTE] I’d vote for Zombie Truman. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-legal-penalty-if-any-for-spitting-on-the-president/371886/17 "2006-09-08T18:00:00Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] I shall correct myself. The limit on terms on presidents only excluded the current president, Harry Truman. Presumably a reanimated Grover Cleveland would not be eligible for reelection, nor would Abe Lincoln. [/QUOTE] Plus, he’s fucked things up enough already what with being the 22nd and 24th President. Then he’d be the 22nd, 24th _and_ 44th or whatever. The whole thing is just a terrible idea. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-legal-penalty-if-any-for-spitting-on-the-president/371886/18 "2006-09-08T18:45:54Z")
What’s the penalty for puking on a prime minister? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2006, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-legal-penalty-if-any-for-spitting-on-the-president/371886/19 "2006-09-08T19:18:54Z")
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas] What’s the penalty for puking on a prime minister? [/QUOTE] Watching your son take your job for 8 years. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2006, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-legal-penalty-if-any-for-spitting-on-the-president/371886/20 "2006-09-09T00:53:51Z")
If you happen to suffer from any type of deadly disease that can be transmitted by bodily fluids (for example, AIDS, Hepatitis, tuberculosis, etc.), you would probably be charged with the more serious crime of “assault with a deadly weapon”. (Or whatever the equivalent is in the statutes of the state where it occurs.) That has been done in some cases where a prisoner with AIDS spit on a prison guard. Here’s a cite from Minnesota in 1987 (26 years ago) where an inmate who bit 2 guards was charged and convicted, even though the guards did not come down with AIDS, and medical evidence shows no recorded case of AIDS being transmitted via saliva. [http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9B0DE3DE1238F936A15755C0A961948260](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9B0DE3DE1238F936A15755C0A961948260) There is a bill in the Vermont legislature to create a specific crime “Assault with bodily fluids”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-legal-penalty-if-any-for-spitting-on-the-president/371886.md?page=2)