# Whats the logic behind "click it or ticket?" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 29, 2009, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-logic-behind-click-it-or-ticket/497995 "2009-05-29T03:33:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-logic-behind-click-it-or-ticket/497995/142 "2009-06-02T01:47:01Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > Genuine question: why would you _want_ to drive without wearing a seatbelt? It’s not as if you’re going to be dancing the fandango in there. Because personal safety is not everyone’s Greatest Good. For some, it’s absolute freedom, and in particular freedom from being nagged about “staying safe.” Even if that is freedom to take an unnecessary risk. Even if that is freedom to win the Darwin Award. Perhaps just taking an unnecessary risk brightens their day. I’ve certainly always felt that is part of the allure of driving fast or operating a motorcycle. It is, of course, ignorant and stupid not to buckle up. But it’s not my life, is it? And for all I know, the truly carefree are living a more wonderful life–shorter though it may be–than I, because they have found a better Greater Good: being carefree. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-logic-behind-click-it-or-ticket/497995/143 "2009-06-02T02:49:22Z")
Can’t say anything against seat-belt laws since I know you probably should wear one. All I can say is I don’t and the tickets I’ve gotten because of not wearing a seat belt really f-ing suck!!! ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-logic-behind-click-it-or-ticket/497995/144 "2009-06-02T03:18:38Z")
> [@Scotty Mo](#): > > Can’t say anything against seat-belt laws since I know you probably should wear one. > > All I can say is I don’t and the tickets I’ve gotten because of not wearing a seat belt really f-ing suck!!! Stop me if I’m wrong here, but the obvious solution would be to _wear your seatbelt_, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-logic-behind-click-it-or-ticket/497995/145 "2009-06-02T03:34:03Z")
> [@TaterRecon](#): > > Well, in my state you can ride a motorcycle w/o a helmet. Thus, I think wearing a seatbelt should be a personal choice as well. Why not argue the opposite way? That is, if wearing a seatbelt is mandatory, then wearing a helmet while riding a motorcycle should be mandatory as well. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-logic-behind-click-it-or-ticket/497995/146 "2009-06-02T03:46:12Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Why not argue the opposite way? That is, if wearing a seatbelt is mandatory, then wearing a helmet while riding a motorcycle should be mandatory as well. It is in most places outside the US, AIUI. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-logic-behind-click-it-or-ticket/497995/147 "2009-06-02T03:56:30Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > For the same reason people want to climb Mt Everest knowing the chances of becoming another frozen stepping stone for the next idiot. > > There’s a bar I go to on occassion that has “bike night”. You can stand outside and count the number of people on one hand who show up with helmets . Nah, that doesn’t work. People get a great deal out of climbing dangerous mountains; to start with: the preparation, the skills involved and the accomplishment of a goal. It’s hardly comparable with leaving your seatbelt off. Motorbike helmets are compulsory where I live, btw. But then, at least you can say that the helmets are uncomfortable and expensive and you don’t get the wind blowing through your hair on a hot day. Is a seatbelt really that awful to wear when you’re driving? > [@Chief\_Pedant](#): > > Because personal safety is not everyone’s Greatest Good. > For some, it’s absolute freedom, and in particular freedom from being nagged about “staying safe.” Even if that is freedom to take an unnecessary risk. Even if that is freedom to win the Darwin Award. Perhaps just taking an unnecessary risk brightens their day. I’ve certainly always felt that is part of the allure of driving fast or operating a motorcycle. > > It is, of course, ignorant and stupid not to buckle up. But it’s not my life, is it? And for all I know, the truly carefree are living a more wonderful life–shorter though it may be–than I, because they have found a better Greater Good: being carefree. You’re being a bit romantic about leaving a seatbelt off. 😃 It might well be that, though - just taking an unnecessary risk. Bucking the system a bit. Being _naughty_. I appreciate the desire to do that. Course, some of that would disappear if it suddenly became OK to leave your seatbelt off … Given that you\* _are_ more likely to die, though (unless the cites in this thread are wrong), and that _does_ affect other people (unless you have no loved ones, you die instantly with no cost and no-one has to clean your brains off the road), and given that, logically, a driver being thrown around without a seatbelt can’t have as much control over a car as a driver still in their seat, I can’t see it as a ‘freedom’ that’s worth arguing for. Carefree isn’t a word I’d use here, personally. Well, not in a ‘wonderful’ sense, anyway, since the care you’re free of here is caring about when you’ll die. (\*Generic you, not you Chief Pedant, for the rest of the post). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-logic-behind-click-it-or-ticket/497995/148 "2009-06-02T04:31:51Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > Is a seatbelt really that awful to wear when you’re driving? Does it matter? Honestly, if you need to be told how to live your life I’m sure there’s a 900 number you can call. ---
**Author:** ![Junior\_Spaceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Junior\_Spaceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Junior_Spaceman)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-logic-behind-click-it-or-ticket/497995/149 "2009-06-02T07:08:57Z")
Is everyone here who’s in favour of total personal freedom in favour of rape? Sure, you might hurt someone else, but why is the government in your face, stopping you from getting off whenever you want, with whoever you want? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-logic-behind-click-it-or-ticket/497995/150 "2009-06-02T14:47:46Z")
> [@](#): > > Is everyone here who’s in favour of total personal freedom in favour of rape? Sure, you might hurt someone else, but why is the government in your face, stopping you from getting off whenever you want, with whoever you want? It’s because you’re directly hurting someone else. Rape has a victim. Murder has a victim. Theft has a victim. Running a red light or driving drunk can very readily have a victim. But the only person who’s at all likely to be a victim of not wearing a seat belt is the person who didn’t wear it. Anything else is just a 1,000,000-1 statistical fluke or based on the idea that everyone’s a victim when somebody gets hurt. ---
**Author:** ![This\_Just\_In\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@This\_Just\_In\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/This_Just_In_2)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-logic-behind-click-it-or-ticket/497995/151 "2009-06-02T16:31:33Z")
Would you complain about wearing a seatbelt on an airplane? You’re in someone else’s property, you follow by their rules. Even extends to airspace rights. A Canadian place flying from Toronto to Halifax needs to follow certain rules when it’s flying 30,000 ft over the US. The US government owns that airspace. As much as it might seem like it, the roads you drive on are not built and maintained for your private enjoyment. They are public property, and administered by publically elected officials. You are allowed to use them if you follow by the rules. The rules may be bad or good in various peoples’ opinions, but that is not relevant. You may ask, should the speed limit there be 10 mph higher? That crosswalk there, is it really needed? Why can’t I lift my suspension 3 more feet than currently allowed? Why do I have to wear this seatbelt? The point is there is \*\*no complete freedom to decide how to act on someone else’s \*\*(in this case the public’s) property. As part of the public you have a stake in it, sure. You can campaign for electing people to change laws to favor your opinion. But that is all. If you build your own asphalt highway on your own land you can drive however you want on it and no one will bother you. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-logic-behind-click-it-or-ticket/497995/152 "2009-06-02T16:42:44Z")
> [@This\_Just\_In\_2](#): > > Would you complain about wearing a seatbelt on an airplane? Airplanes are different from cars. In an airplane, you can be thrown from your seat into another passenger on the plane. ---
**Author:** ![This\_Just\_In\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@This\_Just\_In\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/This_Just_In_2)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-logic-behind-click-it-or-ticket/497995/153 "2009-06-02T16:51:11Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > Airplanes are different from cars. In an airplane, you can be thrown from your seat into another passenger on the plane. If that is all that matters than consider that in a car you can be thrown from the seat and into a pedestrian. Someone’s body might hurl through the air and dent my innocent car parked adjacent. A body might land on my lawn and tear up my turf. An unbuckled passenger will often exit the vehicle, expecially in a rollover. ---
**Author:** ![pbbth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f9ae1b/32.png) [@pbbth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pbbth)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-logic-behind-click-it-or-ticket/497995/154 "2009-06-02T16:55:00Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Okay, let me try and dial the snarkiness down. In my post, I pointed out that car insurance was not subject to normal market forces because many states have laws which make purchasing such insurance mandatory. You responded by saying that things like food are subject to normal market forces. Food and insurance are obviously subject to a different array of market forces but one of them is key for our purposes here: insurance is legally mandatory and food is not. Being as my entire point was how being legally mandated effected the price of a commodity, any examples of non-legally mandated commodities had no relevance to what I said. Actually the more people sign up for insurance the lower the price gets for everyone. It is based on the principle of adverse selection, which states that generally speaking only those people who have a need for insurance will purchase it. With auto insurance if it weren’t mandatory people who felt like they were excellent drivers (which tends to be a majority of people) wouldn’t purchase it, feeling like they aren’t at risk while people who have 4 DUI’s and 6 accidents in the last 8 years will pay simply because they know they are going to plow someone over at some point. This leads to insurance companies paying out more than they take in or being forced to charge so much as to make the coverage unaffordable, which leads to them going bankrupt and then there being no more insurance companies available to pay your claims in the future. Forcing everyone to have coverage spreads the risk, allowing much more affordable premiums for everyone. I totally understand not wanting to have to wear a seatbelt based on personal liberties and whatnot, but mandatory insurance is absolutely necessary, especially in a country where we don’t have socialized health care so being injured by someone with no money and no liability insurance while you have no health coverage could be enough to force people into bankruptcy or worse. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-logic-behind-click-it-or-ticket/497995/155 "2009-06-02T17:51:16Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I don’t see how spinning on ice requires a seatbelt to stay in your seat. There was quite a bit of force pushing me away from my position. Maybe I would have been fine anyway, but I think it was much easier to regain control with the seatbelt (and shoulder harness) on - and I was there. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-logic-behind-click-it-or-ticket/497995/156 "2009-06-03T04:47:51Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > An amusing thing about airbags that I read once - and I’m not going to hunt for a cite - is that, because you cannot assume that an American driver will be wearing a seatbelt, airbags in the US inflate/explode/whatever with far greater force than in other countries, leading there to be more injuries from airbags in the US than in other countries. I don’t know if that is true or not. I would vote for not. From investigating many accidents I can confidently say that airbags are not very effective when not used with seatbelts. > [@Isamu](#): > > The way I’d always looked at it is that driving is a right - you can drive all you want and in any manner you want, on your own property and no government official is empowered to prevent you from doing so. But if you want to avail yourself of the public road system that has been established and maintained by the government, then you may only do so if you abide by all the associated rules, and these rules are added to and changed from time to time, to suit the changing needs of each society. > > There can’t be a fundamental right to enjoy a publicly provided system without following the publicly prescribed rules, can there? I don’t know what it does to your argument but though the number of statutes that are applicable on private property are much fewer, in most jurisdictions there are some motor vehicle statutes that can be enforced on private property. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-logic-behind-click-it-or-ticket/497995.md?page=7)