# What's the maximum height that an ant can fall and walk away?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [June 29, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978 "2010-06-29T20:23:34Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978/21 "2010-06-30T20:28:03Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#):
>
> Doesn’t the thermal conductivity of the air, which depends on the ambient density (?), matter? From what I think you’re saying, at steady state, the skin temp would be identical in both situations; I’m just wondering whether there’d be enough time during the freefall for sufficient heat to flow to the diver to reach the steady state skin temp you mentioned.
Good point, the blackbird is analyzed as steady-state, and the skydiver is clearly a transient case. OTOH, it’s a fairly long transient:
-speed is in excess of 2000 MPH for 50 seconds. Assuming constant ambient temp of -72F during this time (a gross simplification), compression heating results in local temps in excess of 600F. The air is indeed pretty thin for most of that, though, so maybe you wouldn’t see much heat transfer to his suit’s skin in that time?
-peak speed of 2600 MPH (before decel begins) happens right around 100,000 feet altitude. Peak local temps would be over 1000F. Air is getting pretty dense here - thick enough to fly a blackbird - and so our skydiver might cook faster.
I don’t want to be the first person to try it. 😃
---
### Author:  [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978/22 "2010-06-30T20:39:12Z")
Yeah but who says you have to free-fall that whole way? A drogue chute should eb able to slow you to some more reasonable velocity.
---
### Author:  [@mittu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mittu)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978/23 "2010-06-30T20:42:36Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#):
>
> Attach a GPS enabled cell phone to it. 😃
I think the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle would come into play here 😛
---
### Author:  [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978/24 "2010-06-30T22:29:36Z")
> [@Joe Frickin Friday](#):
>
> Good point, the blackbird is analyzed as steady-state, and the skydiver is clearly a transient case. OTOH, it’s a fairly long transient:
>
> -speed is in excess of 2000 MPH for 50 seconds. Assuming constant ambient temp of -72F during this time (a gross simplification), compression heating results in local temps in excess of 600F. The air is indeed pretty thin for most of that, though, so maybe you wouldn’t see much heat transfer to his suit’s skin in that time?
>
> -peak speed of 2600 MPH (before decel begins) happens right around 100,000 feet altitude. Peak local temps would be over 1000F. Air is getting pretty dense here - thick enough to fly a blackbird - and so our skydiver might cook faster.
>
> I don’t want to be the first person to try it. 😃
The decel will start as soon as there’s air. If there’s enough air at 100K to fly a plane, something in non-aerodynamic free-fall would slow way before then.
---
### Author:  [@Flipshod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flipshod)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2010, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978/25 "2010-07-01T03:44:47Z")
> [@mittu](#):
>
> I think the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle would come into play here 😛
Yeah, the measurement would influence the outcome. Indeed Schrodinger’s ant would probably have a greater than 50% chance of walking away without being attached to the cell phone.
---
### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2010, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978/26 "2010-07-01T12:17:44Z")
> [@yoyodyne](#):
>
> The decel will start as soon as there’s air. If there’s enough air at 100K to fly a plane, something in non-aerodynamic free-fall would slow way before then.
This statement is demonstrably false.
If I am standing on a cliff at 100K feet and jump off the edge, I must first accelerate to some non-zero velocity. I will fall some distance before beginning to decelerate.
Now try again, this time on top of a step ladder at 100, 010 feet. I’m still accelerating as I pass through 100K feet; decel still won’t begin for quite some time, not until I’m well below 100K feet..
Make my stepladder 100K feet tall, so now I’m actually standing at 200,000 feet. The “edge of space” is 330,000 feet, so presumably there is still air below that altitude. As before, I have to accelerate - even though there’s air - before I can begin decelerating.
If decel does not begin as soon as there’s air, when will I actually begin decelerating? Well, terminal velocity (the speed at which gravity and aero drag force are in balance) is a function of air density, and decreases with decreasing altitude. In a freefall, decel will begin only when one’s velocity is in excess of local terminal velocity. That point will depend on how fast the object is falling, and on its mass and shape, and on local air density. There’s nothing particularly magical about the 100K foot mark. If our jumper actually happens to begin decelerating around that point, have him try again, and this time replace his parachute with 100 pounds of lead; his decel will now begin at a lower altitude.
When [Kittinger made his jumps from ~100K feet,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Excelsior) his downward acceleration persisted for about 40 seconds, reaching about 75,000 feet before decel began.
---
### Author:  [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2010, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978/27 "2010-07-01T13:07:29Z")
> [@Joe Frickin Friday](#):
>
> Good point, the blackbird is analyzed as steady-state, and the skydiver is clearly a transient case. OTOH, it’s a fairly long transient:
>
> -speed is in excess of 2000 MPH for 50 seconds. Assuming constant ambient temp of -72F during this time (a gross simplification), compression heating results in local temps in excess of 600F. The air is indeed pretty thin for most of that, though, so maybe you wouldn’t see much heat transfer to his suit’s skin in that time?
>
> -peak speed of 2600 MPH (before decel begins) happens right around 100,000 feet altitude. Peak local temps would be over 1000F. Air is getting pretty dense here - thick enough to fly a blackbird - and so our skydiver might cook faster.
>
> I don’t want to be the first person to try it. 😃
Very interesting. I was under the assumption that a skydiver dropped from rest ( **not** orbit) from the “edge of space” would indeed reach a very high peak velocity, but not fast enough in dense enough air to make compression heating much of an issue.
It appears that I was incorrect. Our intrepid skydiver had better wear his/her asbestos underwear.
---
### Author:  [@Gustav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gustav)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978/28 "2010-07-01T14:14:30Z")
> [@Colophon](#):
>
> Incidentally, my wife knows from bitter childhood experience that a gerbil will not survive a fall from an 8-year-old’s shoulder onto a tiled kitchen floor.
Really? That’s surprising, my guys have taken so many swan dives off my shoulders onto the hardwood floor by now I couldn’t even begin to count, and they just shake it off in 2 seconds. I was actually wondering if there was a similar thing at work with them as with the ants. I guess I better hold off on putting it to the test.
---
### Author:  [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2010, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978/29 "2010-07-01T14:46:09Z")
Hardwood is significantly softer than tile.
---
### Author:  [@Gustav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gustav)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978/30 "2010-07-01T15:42:10Z")
Oh snap, I figured anything that doesn’t deform would be about equally hard. Didn’t really think that one through. It’s only by the sheerest accident I’ve never dropped any of them in the (tiled) bathroom!
---
### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978/31 "2010-07-01T17:48:40Z")
> [@Gustav](#):
>
> Oh snap, I figured anything that doesn’t deform would be about equally hard. Didn’t really think that one through. It’s only by the sheerest accident I’ve never dropped any of them in the (tiled) bathroom!
The gerbil deforms so much that it doesn’t matter whether it’s hitting tile or wood, but the difference matters if the item being dropped is something very rigid and brittle, like a porcelain salad bowl. Something like that can survive a fall from greater height if the floor is wood instead of ceramic tile.
---
### Author:  [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978/32 "2010-07-01T18:24:37Z")
> [@Joe Frickin Friday](#):
>
> The gerbil deforms so much that it doesn’t matter whether it’s hitting tile or wood, but the difference matters if the item being dropped is something very rigid and brittle, like a porcelain salad bowl. Something like that can survive a fall from greater height if the floor is wood instead of ceramic tile.
This is untrue. You deform dramatically more than dirt or stone, but try falling off of a ladder onto each of them and see how you feel afterward. How hard the “rigid” floor is (wood vs tile for the gerbil) can make a very big difference.
---
### Author:  [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978/33 "2010-07-01T20:08:38Z")
Especially if you hit your head, which tends to be much more rigid than your belly. No joints in the head-bone to allow for shock absorption.
---
### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2010, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978/34 "2010-07-01T20:43:58Z")
> [@RickJay](#):
>
> Incidentally, I had a cat who fell from an 8th-storey balcony straight to the ground, and wasn’t even injured.
I bet that was an anxious trip to the street for you.
---
### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978/35 "2010-07-01T20:47:23Z")
> [@crazyjoe](#):
>
> No joints in the head-bone to allow for shock absorption.
Actually [there are,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_suture) but they don’t allow _much_ movement:
> [@Wikipedia](#):
>
> A suture is a type of fibrous joint which only occurs in the skull (or “cranium”). They are bound together by Sharpey’s fibres. A tiny amount of movement is permitted at sutures, which contributes to the compliance and elasticity of the skull.
---
### Author:  [@leftfield6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leftfield6)
#### Post date: [July 1, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978/36 "2010-07-01T21:12:34Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#):
>
> I bet that was an anxious trip to the street for you.
More so for the cat.
---
### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2010, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978/37 "2010-07-03T00:16:16Z")
> [@ChrisBooth12](#):
>
> I cannot wait untill we get suits strong enough that we can “parachute” from space to the earth. We just gotta get by the whole reentry thing
You might have to wait another 200 years or so: [Orbital skydiving | Memory Alpha | Fandom](http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Orbital_skydiving)
As to the Buttered Cat Paradox: [Buttered cat paradox - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buttered_cat_paradox)
---
### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2010, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978/38 "2010-07-03T00:27:43Z")
The whole buttered cat levitation thing has always bothered me… It’s just sloppy logic. The basic premise is that instead of violating one of the two rules, we’ll just violate both, and that makes everything OK. If the cat hovers, then the cat does not land on its feet, **and** the toast does not land buttered-side down, since neither one lands at all. What’s needed is not a scenario where _neither_ lands, but one where _both_ do. For instance, the cat first makes contact with its feet, and then immediately thereafter rolls over onto its back.
---
### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2010, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978/39 "2010-07-03T02:24:01Z")
Oh, you’re no fun anymore.
---
### Author:  [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)
#### Post date: [July 3, 2010, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978/40 "2010-07-03T03:26:13Z")
> [@Joe Frickin Friday](#):
>
> I don’t want to be the first person to try it. 😃
Oh, _Buuussster_!
We have a little job for you. It won’t hurt a bit. Promise.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978.md?page=1)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-maximum-height-that-an-ant-can-fall-and-walk-away/544978.md?page=3)