# What's the most famous murder in England? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 1, 2012, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411 "2012-03-01T01:25:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/21 "2012-03-01T10:52:33Z")
George Orwell wrote an essay on this topic in 1946. > [@](#): > > If one examines the murders which have given the greatest amount of pleasure to the British public, the murders whose story is known in its general outline to almost everyone and which have been made into novels and re-hashed over and over again by the Sunday papers, one finds a fairly strong family resemblance running through the greater number of them. Our great period in murder, our Elizabethan period, so to speak, seems to have been between roughly 1850 and 1925, and the murderers whose reputation has stood the test of time are the following: [Dr. Palmer of Rugeley](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Palmer_%28murderer%29), [Jack the Ripper](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_the_ripper), [Neill Cream](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neill_Cream), [Mrs. Maybrick](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_Maybrick), [Dr. Crippen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawley_Harvey_Crippen), [Seddon](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Seddon), [Joseph Smith](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Joseph_Smith), [Armstrong](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_Rowse_Armstrong), and [Bywaters and Thompson](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edith_Thompson_and_Frederick_Bywaters). In addition, in 1919 or thereabouts, there was another very celebrated case which fits into the general pattern but which I had better not mention by name, because the accused man was acquitted. > > [The Decline of the English Murder](http://theorwellprize.co.uk/george-orwell/by-orwell/essays-and-other-works/decline-of-the-english-murder/): _Tribune_, 15 February 1946 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/22 "2012-03-01T11:04:19Z")
Do assassinations count? If so, there’s [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Mountbatten,_1st_Earl_Mountbatten_of_Burma#Assassination) one. (noted that ‘in England’ may be in dispute - the victim was English, but the event and perpetrators were not) ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/23 "2012-03-01T11:35:57Z")
I thought of Thomas Becket as well. There was more than one Jack the Ripper murder and I don’t think any of them particularly stand out from the others. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/24 "2012-03-01T12:44:31Z")
I have no doubt that the author refers to Jack the Ripper. Probably thinking more of “murderers” (as suggested) or “murder cases”. If you raise the argument that not one specific murder of his was that famous, you could also raise the case that there is doubt as to whether Crippen ever murdered anyone. Also, with Jamie Bulger, it may be a famous murder case in England, but whether it is a famous English murder to the rest of the world is moot. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/25 "2012-03-01T12:46:02Z")
OJ. Oops wrong country. Jack the Ripper is probably the most famous murderer in the world (I’m putting assassinations in a different category). I think it nitpicky to quibble over murder vs murders. As an American I have not heard of most of those mentioned. The ones I have heard of I would not have thought of on my own. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/26 "2012-03-01T12:56:35Z")
Another vote for ol’ Jack. ---
**Author:** ![Cabot\_Covian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aca169/32.png) [@Cabot\_Covian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabot_Covian)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/27 "2012-03-01T13:05:35Z")
Thanks to all for your excellent suggestions, and I’m surprised that something as obvious as Jack the Ripper never even crossed my mind until I saw the posts above. I think, as some others mentioned, I was in the mindset of a single murder, as opposed to a series. But there’s no probably no definitive answer (I can see a good case being made for several) , and I’m being introduced to a lot of interesting cases I’d never heard of before, so thanks! ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/28 "2012-03-01T13:12:07Z")
Obviously, the most famous English murder is this one: [That Mitchell and Webb Look - Diana Assassination - YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4meFC1ee7Q) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/29 "2012-03-01T13:17:10Z")
If we’re talking about solo murders, Crippen stands out. For one thing, he was the first killer caught with the aid of [wireless technology](http://www.amazon.com/Thunderstruck-Erik-Larson/dp/1400080665). ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/30 "2012-03-01T13:40:32Z")
How about the Mary Bell murder? Well technically it was manslaughter, and she was the [murderer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Bell), but that was pretty famous. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/31 "2012-03-01T13:56:27Z")
Another vote for the princes in the tower. ---
**Author:** ![spankthecrumpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@spankthecrumpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spankthecrumpet)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/32 "2012-03-01T14:08:59Z")
I don’t think it could be beckett because then you would have to include one of cromwell or cranmer. Concur with everyone else about jack the ripper being the most famous murderer although again I couldn’t name any of his victims off the top of my head. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/33 "2012-03-01T17:39:56Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > There was more than one Jack the Ripper murder and I don’t think any of them particularly stand out from the others. Mary Kelley might argue with you about that. He had a private room, plenty of time, & used it to the uttermost. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/34 "2012-03-01T17:48:06Z")
> [@spankthecrumpet](#): > > I don’t think it could be beckett because then you would have to include one of cromwell or cranmer. Cromwell was “murdered” by malaria. I’m pretty sure the guilty mosquito’s name has been lost to history. Cranmer was tried and executed for hearsy. Certainly not a fair way to go by today’s standards, but not murder. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/35 "2012-03-01T18:28:05Z")
Catherine of Aragon ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/36 "2012-03-01T18:42:26Z")
At least in the Kindle version, the exact quote is > [@](#): > > [There is murder in this book, the second most-famous in England…](http://www.amazon.com/Thunderstruck-Erik-Larson/dp/1400080665#reader_B000JMKR4S) It’s a little strangely worded - changing murder from an uncountable noun to a countable one. I guess that he refers to Jack the Ripper, and tried to make the syntax work for either one murder, or an entire murderer’s career, and sort of failed. ---
**Author:** ![UntouchedTakeaway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d78d45/32.png) [@UntouchedTakeaway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UntouchedTakeaway)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/37 "2012-03-01T20:06:32Z")
My first thought was The Moors Murders - murderers Ian Brady & Myra Hindley. UT ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/38 "2012-03-01T20:18:15Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Catherine of Aragon Divorce can be harsh, but It doesn’t make Henry a murderer. (of her, at least) ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/39 "2012-03-01T20:33:26Z")
"There is murder in this book, the second most-famous in England… " I see, he was talking about this being the second most-famous _book_ in England. Makes perfect sense. Otherwise his modifier would be misplaced. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/40 "2012-03-01T20:36:04Z")
After _Harry Potter_. All of them? We’re back where we started… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411.md?page=3)