# What's the most famous murder in England? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 1, 2012, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411 "2012-03-01T01:25:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/41 "2012-03-01T21:26:54Z")
> [@bup](#): > > After _Harry Potter_. All of them? We’re back where we started… King James Bible? ---
**Author:** ![Rhiannon8404](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhiannon8404/32/17929_2.png) [@Rhiannon8404](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhiannon8404)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/42 "2012-03-01T21:52:24Z")
Well, the Jack the Ripper murders were what popped into my head when I first read the thread title. Then I thought, it says “murder” not “murders”, so maybe he means Crippen. So in my mind, those are numbers 1 and 2 for English murders. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/43 "2012-03-01T21:54:54Z")
> [@Girl\_From\_Mars](#): > > In recent times there would also be the Jamie Bulger murder, which was pretty notorious given the ages of all those involved. But of all time I’d agree with Becket or the Jack the Ripper murders, depending on how ‘murder’ is defined. That one is particularly heartbreaking. Man its still so sad when I revisit the Wiki page dedicated to that subject. ---
**Author:** ![Scubaqueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@Scubaqueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scubaqueen)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/44 "2012-03-01T22:49:33Z")
Another vote for the Ripper. He/they (not conclusively proven that the Ripper WASN’T actually a team) constitutes the first documented serial killer/s in history. To date, it’s still the most famous series of murders in history unsolved or otherwise. Professionals and amateurs both are still trying to solve it in fact. I’m surprised no Brit Dopers brought up Derek Bentley: a shameful miscarriage of justice that took 45 years to finally earn that poor boy a posthumous pardon. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2012, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/45 "2012-03-01T23:04:23Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > "There is murder in this book, the second most-famous in England… " > > I see, he was talking about this being the second most-famous _book_ in England. Makes perfect sense. Otherwise his modifier would be misplaced. This is hilarious.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/46 "2012-03-02T00:14:02Z")
The Princes in the Tower. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/47 "2012-03-02T09:18:26Z")
> [@Scubaqueen](#): > > I’m surprised no Brit Dopers brought up Derek Bentley: a shameful miscarriage of justice that took 45 years to finally earn that poor boy a posthumous pardon. Because it just isn’t that famous compared to the Ripper murders (and many others, including the Yorkshire Ripper and the Moors Murderers). It IS used as a great argument against the death penalty, however. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/48 "2012-03-02T10:04:30Z")
Becket’s murder is IMHO pre-eminent. Jack the Ripper doesn’t qualify because he was the murderer. But one widely referred to that people don’t realise they know is [Fanny Adams](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanny_Adams), she of ‘Sweet FA.’ ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/49 "2012-03-02T11:13:38Z")
The quotation from the book doesn’t make any reference to history; it could just as easily be read as referring to what is _currently_ the most famous murder—i.e., one foremost in people’s minds, or in recent newspaper headlines. That opens the door to a lot more murders than the ones that have been submitted for consideration so far. I think one of the most internationally famous modern-day murders in England was that of [James Bulger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger). Even though it happened in 1993, since 2010 it’s been occasionally in the headlines again owing to recent activity by of one of the murderers. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/50 "2012-03-02T11:18:07Z")
I’m glad you mentioned James Bulger. No one else had. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/51 "2012-03-02T11:26:29Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > I’m glad you mentioned James Bulger. No one else had. Oh, dammit… I was doing a search in the page for “Bolger” instead of “Bulger”. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/52 "2012-03-02T11:28:21Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Cromwell was “murdered” by malaria. I’m pretty sure the guilty mosquito’s name has been lost to history. > > Cranmer was tried and executed for hearsy. Certainly not a fair way to go by today’s standards, but not murder. As **spankthecrumpet** hasn’t been back I will point out that this refers to the other Cromwell, [Thomas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cromwell), executed under Henry VIII. His crime – arranging the marriage with Anne of Cleves the “fat Flanders mare”. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/53 "2012-03-02T11:28:38Z")
Happens to us all 🙂 (for Psychonaut) ---
**Author:** ![spankthecrumpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@spankthecrumpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spankthecrumpet)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/54 "2012-03-02T13:00:23Z")
> [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](#): > > As **spankthecrumpet** hasn’t been back I will point out that this refers to the other Cromwell, [Thomas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cromwell), executed under Henry VIII. His crime – arranging the marriage with Anne of Cleves the “fat Flanders mare”. Indeedy doody. The latter was the great-great-great-great-uncle of the former fwiw ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/55 "2012-03-02T13:03:52Z")
He’s most certainly referring to Jack the Ripper. If we count political executions, then I daresay Anne Boleyn ranks as high as St. Thomas Becket. The repercussions of that ill-fated relationship are staggering – England’s break with Rome and the birth of Elizabeth I being just two examples. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/56 "2012-03-02T14:04:47Z")
I notice the **Bywaters and Thompson** case mentioned upthread–long-forgotten, but fascinating, I recently read a 1970s-era book about the case. And what was the other 1920s British case . . . another woman and her lover killing the older husband; I read a book about that, too–the lover was convicted and the wife killed herself right afterward? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/57 "2012-03-03T01:33:28Z")
> [@UntouchedTakeaway](#): > > My first thought was The Moors Murders - murderers Ian Brady & Myra Hindley. > > UT Speaking of, the movie [LONGFORD](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0759612/) is one of the best character studies I’ve ever seen. It deals with the relationship of the title character [Frank Pakenham](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Pakenham,_7th_Earl_of_Longford), Earl of Longford, with Myra Hindley during her incarceration. Jim Broadbent plays the title role, and while I think I would have face-in-palms and :rolleyes: daily if I’d lived when the old fart was a man of influence, even with naivety/homophobia/Catholic fanaticism/general fanatical and aristocratic silliness and all accounted for he wasn’t a simple creature and there truly was a lot good in him. To say too much would be to give a big spoiler, but the last third of the film features some great acting by Broadbent. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/58 "2012-03-03T02:18:59Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > To say too much would be to give a big spoiler, but the last third of the film features some great acting by Broadbent. \*Everything \*with Jim Broadbent features great acting. ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/59 "2012-03-03T14:36:07Z")
> [@Scubaqueen](#): > > Another vote for the Ripper. > > He/they (not conclusively proven that the Ripper WASN’T actually a team) constitutes the first documented serial killer/s in history. Maybe you’re defining ‘documented’ more rigidly than I would, but there were serial killers before Jack the Ripper. The first one that springs to mind is Elizabeth Báthory: [Elizabeth Báthory - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Bathory). ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411/60 "2012-03-03T15:45:26Z")
> [@eclectic\_wench](#): > > Maybe you’re defining ‘documented’ more rigidly than I would, but there were serial killers before Jack the Ripper. The first one that springs to mind is Elizabeth Báthory: [Elizabeth Báthory - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Bathory). Yes, but per the OP, he’s asking for English monsters, not Hungarian ones. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-famous-murder-in-england/614411.md?page=4)