What's the most important event or person that nobody's made a movie about?

[Slithy_Tove]

Those of us in our fifties are the last to have lived when elephants were used in war.

[Rick_Kitchen]

The Night Witches, the female Russian pilots of World War II. Amazing story.

[CalMeacham]

@Martian Bigfoot

Huh? This makes it sound like African elephants were unusual in the ancient Mediterranean world. Which they weren’t, particularly. There were certainly elephants in North Africa well into Roman times. Carthage used them in several battles in both the First and the Second Punic Wars, the ones brought across the Alps weren’t unique in that respect. Hannibal used them again at Zama. The Romans would themselves use elephants, brought from Africa, when they went to fight in Macedonia and Greece. King Juba of Numidia brought some along to face Caesar at Thapsus (where Juba was on the side of Caesar’s enemies in the civil war) as late as 46 BC.

So, it’s only a “mystery” where Hannibal got them if you ignore the obvious explanation: They were living in North Africa.

Which, BTW, your (rather confusingly written) linked article doesn’t even deny. It just says that Hannibal’s local elephants were smaller than the ones living further south, and cites a dude that finds the idea of Hannibal using “small” elephants “unsatisfying”. Well, whatever. I think “small” is a relative term. They’re freaking elephants!

BTW, Hannibal also wasn’t the first to bring elephants into Italy, by a long shot. The Romans first encountered them in the armies of Pyrrhus, when he invaded Italy way back in 280 BC. Apparently, Pyrrhus got his from Egypt.

As far as I know, there aren’t any mentions of use of African war elephants after Thapsus, but that’s probably mostly because they often kind of sucked in battle, certainly by that point in history. At Thapsus they panicked and trampled Juba’s own troops, which was the kind of thing they had a reputation for doing. And they did disappear from the area during the Roman Empire, probably hunted to extinction (the Roman Empire was something of an extinction event for North Africa in general).

Or, well, at least there’s no mention of them in a major way. They do pop up here and there. Claudius is said to have brought along elephants (or at least one elephant) when he invaded Britain (for, presumably, shits and giggles).

I do agree, though, that they probably weren’t exactly “readily available” in Greece at the time of Aristotle.

No, they werem’t particularly common in Alexander’s day, especially in Greece. North Africa (which apparently had dwarf elephants into historic times North African elephant - Wikipedia ). But you won’;t find them in early histories of Greece (unlike the lion, which did range up that far). Alexander was over a century before Hannibal, and long before Claudius, of course.
Look at al the examples in the Wikipedia page on “war elephants”:

War elephant

Pyrrhus in 280 BCE is the earliest tyhey list. Alexander lived 356-323, well before any of the uses of War elephants against European cited. In fact, the first use of war elephants against Europeans that page lists (against Asian elephants, though, not African) is ahainst Alexander himself in 331 BCE. Rulers in northern Africa might have been using elkephants against each other, but it appears that war elephants were a new thing against Alexander, and would make him sending one back to his tutorf plausible.

It turns out the idea wasn’t original with dde Camp – historians had been playing with the idea befoire And there are plenty willing to punch holes in the idea, too, for various reasons. But it’d still make a helluva film.

[nearwildheaven]

@FUTBOL!

I’ve had a dream for a while about making a movie about this event in fairly recent American history.

I have neither the skills nor the capital to make even a low-budget production, though.

A TV movie was made about it, specifically the story of the activist who brought it to the world’s attention.

[Don_t_Panic]

@CalMeacham

[post]

Dude, what’s up? Your links are the same as the ones I posted.

I’m not trying to pick a fight or anything (certainly not over elephants, and you know that I love you ;)), but:

You said that elephants are sub-Saharan. I pointed out that they were living in North Africa into Roman times.

You posted a link suggesting that there’s a mystery over where Hannibal got his elephants. I explained that there isn’t, as they were living in North Africa, and Carthaginians and others were using elephants quite a lot.

You said that African elephants weren’t readily available in Greece in Aristotle’s time. Which I completely agreed with. So we’re on the same page there.

Then you post the same links as I posted, for some reason.

So… are we cool, or are we still disagreeing about something here?