# What's the most potent automatic weapon a person can carry? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 20, 2006, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-potent-automatic-weapon-a-person-can-carry/340776 "2006-01-20T03:20:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-potent-automatic-weapon-a-person-can-carry/340776/1 "2006-01-20T03:20:32Z")
What’s the most devastating amount of firearm horsepower you could carry in a single weapon that would be concealable under a jacket or coat? ---
**Author:** ![lonesome\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@lonesome\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lonesome_loser)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-potent-automatic-weapon-a-person-can-carry/340776/2 "2006-01-20T03:23:11Z")
Just curious. Why do you want to know? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-potent-automatic-weapon-a-person-can-carry/340776/3 "2006-01-20T03:32:54Z")
I am know gun person but I think the question is too broad. For instance some weapons may be better for penetrating body armor but weapons that can penetrate body armor are less lethal than weapons that may be defeated by body armor. The idea being, as I understand it, a shot is more lethal if it stays in the person and bounces around their insides rather than going right through. Weapons that can defear body armor are more likely to go right through an un-armored person (I realize the ammo used can be a major factor in this too). Does range count? Accuracy? Not only dropping someone from 300 yards versus 50 yards but say a gun is powerful but difficult to shoot accurately due to its power…is it less lethal? Is a pointblank .45 head shot less lethal than a shotgun blast from the same distance? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-potent-automatic-weapon-a-person-can-carry/340776/4 "2006-01-20T03:34:28Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I am know gun person but I think the question is too broad. I am NO gun person… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![lonesome\_loser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c68b51/32.png) [@lonesome\_loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lonesome_loser)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-potent-automatic-weapon-a-person-can-carry/340776/5 "2006-01-20T03:36:02Z")
It gets even more scary. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-potent-automatic-weapon-a-person-can-carry/340776/6 "2006-01-20T03:41:12Z")
> [@lonesome loser](#): > > Just curious. > Why do you want to know? **Astro** has been around here long enough I am not worried that he needs to post this question here for some nefarious purpose. If he was up to no good I expect he could manage quite well on his own without asking or advertising it here. So he is either whooshing us (or me so far) or bored I am guessing. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-potent-automatic-weapon-a-person-can-carry/340776/7 "2006-01-20T03:44:54Z")
> [@lonesome loser](#): > > Just curious. > Why do you want to know? I was watching “The Shield” DVDs and the automatic weapons (stolen from the military - not sure what the specific type was) the police were trying to get back from the street gangs had seemed amazingly powerful. Just wondered what the baddest (concealable) automatic weapon out there was. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-potent-automatic-weapon-a-person-can-carry/340776/8 "2006-01-20T03:50:37Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I was watching “The Shield” DVDs and the automatic weapons (stolen from the military - not sure what the specific type was) the police were trying to get back from the street gangs had seemed amazingly powerful. Ermm… You know that movie/tv weapon abilities bear no resemblance to the real world. They have the never ending ammo clips, bad guy weapons never hit, good guy weapons never miss, they knock people back 20 feet, make cars explode into mini-mushroom clouds, are accurate while doing olympic class gymnastics and firing at the same time, etc. ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-potent-automatic-weapon-a-person-can-carry/340776/9 "2006-01-20T03:55:05Z")
You could wear a Smith&Wesson .500Magnum in a shoulder rig under a rather long coat. They even have a short version. They also have a revolver in .460Magnum As for auto-pistols…Desert Eagle has a pistol in .50AE. There are a number of automag pistols chambered for rifle loads. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-potent-automatic-weapon-a-person-can-carry/340776/10 "2006-01-20T04:01:29Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Ermm… > > You know that movie/tv weapon abilities bear no resemblance to the real world. They have the never ending ammo clips, bad guy weapons never hit, good guy weapons never miss, they knock people back 20 feet, make cars explode into mini-mushroom clouds, are accurate while doing olympic class gymnastics and firing at the same time, etc. “The Shield” is pretty realistic hardware wise. Almost obsessively so. I’d be fairly surprised if the guns they referenced weren’t real. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-potent-automatic-weapon-a-person-can-carry/340776/11 "2006-01-20T04:16:00Z")
Since I know nothing useful about weapons I figured I’d check with those I would consider experts. Here is a shortened list: [Heckler & Koch MP5 Submachine Gun](http://www.navyseals.com/community/navyseals/weapons_mp5.cfm) [Heckler & Koch P9S Handgun](http://www.navyseals.com/community/navyseals/weapons_p9s.cfm) I figure if the US Navy SEALS think these are worthwhile weapons they must be pretty good. I am guessing the SEALS have taken into account all the variables to make these tops. **Cerberus** mentioned some weapons that probably cause more damage when they hit something but as mentioned if the things are hard to fire accurately they are not much use. If you follow the links other weapons in their classes are listed (Colt .45 is listed as a favorite but the one I listed sounds as if it is superior). ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-potent-automatic-weapon-a-person-can-carry/340776/12 "2006-01-20T04:19:29Z")
My former FIL used to drive a “laundry truck” as a young man, he was actually running bootleg alcohol. He had a .410, single shot, breech loader pistol. I would want to be close in front of that thing when it went off. It was a souvenier of the “good ol’ days”. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-potent-automatic-weapon-a-person-can-carry/340776/13 "2006-01-20T04:21:24Z")
That should read “wouldn’t”. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-potent-automatic-weapon-a-person-can-carry/340776/14 "2006-01-20T04:24:27Z")
Reading further on the MP5 Submachine gun it says it is being phased out for the M4 (CAR-15 model 727). Oddly I had little luck searching for this gun (Googled CAR-15 model 727) but with a bit more Google-Fu came across this (below) which I _think_ is what they are talking about. If so seems like this is the gold standard for submachine guns. [M4 Commando](http://www.colt.com/mil/M4Com.asp) ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-potent-automatic-weapon-a-person-can-carry/340776/15 "2006-01-20T04:27:01Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Since I know nothing useful about weapons I figured I’d check with those I would consider experts. Here is a shortened list: > > [Heckler & Koch MP5 Submachine Gun](http://www.navyseals.com/community/navyseals/weapons_mp5.cfm) > > [Heckler & Koch P9S Handgun](http://www.navyseals.com/community/navyseals/weapons_p9s.cfm) > > I figure if the US Navy SEALS think these are worthwhile weapons they must be pretty good. I am guessing the SEALS have taken into account all the variables to make these tops. **Cerberus** mentioned some weapons that probably cause more damage when they hit something but as mentioned if the things are hard to fire accurately they are not much use. > > If you follow the links other weapons in their classes are listed (Colt .45 is listed as a favorite but the one I listed sounds as if it is superior). That’s it! “MP5” jogged my memory. [That’s the one](http://www.navyseals.com/community/navyseals/weapons_mp5.cfm) on the show. It’s a nasty little thing. > [@](#): > > The Heckler & Koch MP5 > > Many elite units around the world use the compact submachine gun; this includes the SAS, GSG 9, GEO and the US Navy SEALs. Firing the parabellum 9mm round at 800 rounds per minute. What turns the tide on this automatic machine gun is the unique roller-delayed blowback system, which operates the weapon in a fully locked breach position. Where other auto systems rely on the weight and velocity of the returning breach to seal the chamber the MP5 uses a series of locks and cams to seal off the chamber. This means that the first round is fired from a locked chamber. This gives the user the accuracy on the first shot that can mean the difference between life and death. Capable of single shot fire, three round bursts, or full automatic at 800 rounds per minute. The MP5 is used various purposes in the Teams, but mostly for Close Quarters Combat. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-potent-automatic-weapon-a-person-can-carry/340776/16 "2006-01-20T04:43:30Z")
Since the OP seems to have been answered solved I hope a slight hijack will be ok. Can someone explain to me the point of a submachine gun that can fire 800 rounds in one minute is? I mean seriously…with the expanded 30 round clip the weapon will empty itself in ~0.04 seconds. I’m not sure a human can even perceive a time slice that small and yet you can have the weapon empty itself barely (if that) before you knew the first round had been fired? Is there a practical use to that? Wouldn’t it be better to limit it to a “mere” 100 rounds per second or something? I suppose if I hit something with 30 rounds in a fraction of a second it will be bad for the target but the term “overkill” springs to mind for this. What am I missing? (I know it can fire single round and three shot bursts which I imagine is the preferred fire mode most times…still…800 rounds per second!) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-potent-automatic-weapon-a-person-can-carry/340776/17 "2006-01-20T04:47:51Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I mean seriously…with the expanded 30 round clip the weapon will empty itself in ~0.04 seconds. Whoops…think I did my math wrong on this. It will unload itself in 2.6 seconds. That is certainly not as nuts as 0.04 seconds. Still crazy fast so I will let my question stand albeit modified from the aburdity I posted. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-potent-automatic-weapon-a-person-can-carry/340776/18 "2006-01-20T04:51:57Z")
Ok…somone check my math. Did it again and got ~2.25 seconds. (I make no claim to being remotely good at math but I really dropped the ball on this one and am getting embarrassed). ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-potent-automatic-weapon-a-person-can-carry/340776/19 "2006-01-20T05:15:33Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Since the OP seems to have been answered solved I hope a slight hijack will be ok. > > Can someone explain to me the point of a submachine gun that can fire 800 rounds in one minute is? I mean seriously…with the expanded 30 round clip the weapon will empty itself in ~0.04 seconds. I’m not sure a human can even perceive a time slice that small and yet you can have the weapon empty itself barely (if that) before you knew the first round had been fired? > > Is there a practical use to that? Wouldn’t it be better to limit it to a “mere” 100 rounds per second or something? I suppose if I hit something with 30 rounds in a fraction of a second it will be bad for the target but the term “overkill” springs to mind for this. > > What am I missing? > > (I know it can fire single round and three shot bursts which I imagine is the preferred fire mode most times…still…800 rounds per second!) That’s about the size of it. A SMG isn’t meant for sustained fire - you need a lot of ammunition (i.e. belt feed), a good cooling mechanism (forced air or water cooling) and often a quick-change barrel (for when the barrel begins to overheat). However, cycling at a very high rate of fire is handy when you are firing off short bursts - if a burst of three leaves the gun before the recoil can spoil your aim there’s a much better chance of multiple bullets hitting the target at once and this improves the chance of killing the target. IIRC the HK G11 caseless rifle fired at about 600rpm on full auto but when firing 3-round bursts it cycled at 2000rpm, which helped make it very accurate in burst fire. As far as scary firepower goes, a fully automatic shotgun is pretty nasty, at least on paper. Here’s one: [http://midamericarecreation.com/shotgun\_pages/shotgun1.htm](http://midamericarecreation.com/shotgun_pages/shotgun1.htm) Firing 00 buckshot (nine .33cal pellets per shell, I think) at 360rpm gives 54 big lead balls downrange in one second. Thus the term “streetsweeper” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Doubt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@Stan\_Doubt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Doubt)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-potent-automatic-weapon-a-person-can-carry/340776/20 "2006-01-20T05:31:25Z")
I don’t think it’s that simple. It’s a question of a spraygun machine pistol , albeit a nice spraygun (H+K MP5) vs. automatic pistol (Desert Eagle) vs. a big ass High Powered handgun (S&W .500, .44 Automag, or rifle cartridge loading pistol). Magazine capacity is a factor, but the load is also important. 9mm ammunition is significantly smaller than the competition mentioned above. Even at 5 shots in a big bore revolver, larger ammunition brings a LOT more firepower to the table. If you only need to take out two or three targets, a high powered handgun can be quite competitive against a machine pistol. I realize that the OP asked about automatic weapons but that really doesn’t specify whether he means full automatic, auto-cocking handguns, etc. If safety glass or body armor enter into the equation, no question, HP handgun loads can penetrate them while machine pistol ammunition usually cannot. Think Tackleberry! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-potent-automatic-weapon-a-person-can-carry/340776.md?page=2)