# What's the most undemocratic thing US politicians ever rammed down the public throat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 5, 2016, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-undemocratic-thing-us-politicians-ever-rammed-down-the-public-throat/742261 "2016-01-05T20:06:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-undemocratic-thing-us-politicians-ever-rammed-down-the-public-throat/742261/61 "2016-01-07T17:20:52Z")
21st Amendment repealed Prohibition. 18th Amendment authorized it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-undemocratic-thing-us-politicians-ever-rammed-down-the-public-throat/742261/62 "2016-01-07T18:40:28Z")
Potato, drunk potahto. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-undemocratic-thing-us-politicians-ever-rammed-down-the-public-throat/742261/63 "2016-01-07T19:02:44Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > The Supreme Court decision on _Bush v. Gore_, which **decided the outcome of Presidential election** , even though the result was too close to call, and there was an ongoing recount. I can’t think of anything less democratic that happened in the US in a long time. If I understand correctly, SCOTUS didn’t \*change \*the outcome at all, it just \*upheld \*the already-existing outcome. How is that undemocratic? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-undemocratic-thing-us-politicians-ever-rammed-down-the-public-throat/742261/64 "2016-01-07T19:03:56Z")
From SCOTUS’ point of view, the already-existing outcome was a recount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-undemocratic-thing-us-politicians-ever-rammed-down-the-public-throat/742261/65 "2016-01-07T19:17:13Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > 21st Amendment repealed Prohibition. 18th Amendment authorized it. I get most of the amendment numbers mixed up but these should be easy: _ **21 – Can Drink. … 18 – Not Old Enough.** _ ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-undemocratic-thing-us-politicians-ever-rammed-down-the-public-throat/742261/66 "2016-01-07T19:22:23Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > I would think ObamaCare is right up there at the top. The only major piece of deep social change legislation in over 100 years without some level of bi-partisan support. > > Taming of the trusts in the 1890’s, Social security, civil rights legislation all were to some degree or another bi-partisan efforts. In fact the Civil Rights Act of 1964 received greater % of republican support than democrat support. That tells you more about the Republicans of today than Obamacare. They can’t truly be as opposed to it as they indicate, since it’s basically made from their own health care proposals from the 1990s. It’s the result of a recent party strategy change to absolute obstruction rather than a sign that it was rammed down the public’s throat. The majority of people either supported it or didn’t feel that it went far enough, so it can hardly qualify as one of the most unpopular legislative decisions of all time. Obama would get 0% Republican support for a national acknowledgement that puppies and kittens are cute. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-undemocratic-thing-us-politicians-ever-rammed-down-the-public-throat/742261/67 "2016-01-07T19:52:16Z")
Yeah, if people think that a democratically elected president who campaigned on reforming health care and then got his legislative package through congress is the most undemocratic thing to happen in the US, every American woman born before 1920, ever black American born before 1968, and every American Indian ever would like to have a word with you. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-undemocratic-thing-us-politicians-ever-rammed-down-the-public-throat/742261/68 "2016-01-07T21:03:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > From SCOTUS’ point of view, the already-existing outcome was a recount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court. This is what most Democrats tend to forget. The recount process had already played out, as provided for under Florida state law, with the result being Bush won. Democrats convinced a judge to order an additional recount, not provided for under election laws. _This_ is what the Supreme Court stopped. There are practical reasons for this: you don’t want elections to degenerate into a never-ending morass of recounts and legal chicanery in trying to get enough of the right votes counted so your guy wins. Back to the OP, I’ll second the TARP program. It was severely unpopular, altho there were very practical reasons for it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-undemocratic-thing-us-politicians-ever-rammed-down-the-public-throat/742261/69 "2016-01-07T21:06:22Z")
Democrats probably forget that because it isn’t true. There was no “recount process that had already played out.” Gore requested a manual recount as provided by state law. It was the only recount that began, much less got completed. He could have requested a machine recount but did not. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-undemocratic-thing-us-politicians-ever-rammed-down-the-public-throat/742261/70 "2016-01-07T21:24:10Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Back to the OP, I’ll second the TARP program. It was severely unpopular, altho there were very practical reasons for it. [From Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Economic_Stabilization_Act_of_2008#The_public): > [@](#): > > In a survey conducted September 19–22 by the Pew Research Center, by a margin of 57 percent to 30 percent, Americans supported the bailout when asked “As you may know, the government is potentially investing billions to try and keep financial institutions and markets secure. Do you think this is the right thing or the wrong thing for the government to be doing?” > > In a survey conducted September 19–22 by Bloomberg/Los Angeles Times, by a margin of 55 percent to 31 percent, Americans opposed the bailout when asked whether “the government should use taxpayers’ dollars to rescue ailing private financial firms whose collapse could have adverse effects on the economy and market, or is it not the government’s responsibility to bail out private companies with taxpayers’ dollars?”. > > In a survey conducted September 24 by USA Today/Gallup, when asked “As you may know, the Bush administration has proposed a plan that would allow the Treasury Department to buy and re-sell up to $700 billion of distressed assets from financial companies. What would you like to see Congress do?”, 56 percent of respondents wanted Congress to pass a plan different from the original Paulson proposal, 22 percent supported the Paulson proposal in its initial form, and 11 percent wanted Congress to take no action. I’d hardly call that “severely unpopular.” Rather, it looks to me like different ways of asking the question led to different results. Are you looking at different poll numbers? ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-undemocratic-thing-us-politicians-ever-rammed-down-the-public-throat/742261/71 "2016-01-08T13:08:56Z")
Obviously, voter suppression laws. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-undemocratic-thing-us-politicians-ever-rammed-down-the-public-throat/742261/72 "2016-01-08T19:20:24Z")
US entry in to WW1 has to up there, even with the Lusitania and Zimmermann Telegram, there was never a majority opinion in favor of it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-undemocratic-thing-us-politicians-ever-rammed-down-the-public-throat/742261/73 "2016-01-08T19:47:06Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Obviously, voter suppression laws. Which, however, are undeniably popular with some segments of the public. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-undemocratic-thing-us-politicians-ever-rammed-down-the-public-throat/742261/74 "2016-01-08T20:45:41Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > Vietnam War? My understanding is that the Vietnam war was quite popular for the majority of the war. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-undemocratic-thing-us-politicians-ever-rammed-down-the-public-throat/742261/75 "2016-01-08T20:51:20Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Undemocratic or unpopular? They are not the same thing. Politicians are supposed to do what is right instead of what is popular (considering that most of us are into short term benefits and barely understand the issues). > > In contemporary times I would say TARP or Clinton’s bailout of Mexico in the 90s. Actually undemocratic and unpopular are the same thing. Unrepublican and unpopular are not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-undemocratic-thing-us-politicians-ever-rammed-down-the-public-throat/742261/76 "2016-01-08T21:07:51Z")
As an alternative way of quantifying the question, which were the most popular initiatives that failed because they did not attract a super-majority or through filibuster? ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-undemocratic-thing-us-politicians-ever-rammed-down-the-public-throat/742261/77 "2016-01-08T21:10:59Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Congress authorizes all military spending except for short term emergency actions decided on by the Commander in Chief. They just don’t like to declare “wars”. > > I’m not sure if you’re just offended by nobody calling a spade a spade, or because you think there is no Congressional oversight. But it’s not like the President can just start a war all by himself. Libya ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-undemocratic-thing-us-politicians-ever-rammed-down-the-public-throat/742261/78 "2016-01-10T09:26:45Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > But it’s not like the President can just start a war all by himself. > [@drewder](#): > > Libya True, Jefferson did send ships to the Med without getting Congressional approval first. But a couple months later he did get it. If you want an example of a President waging war without Congressional approval, try the 1983 invasion of Grenada. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-undemocratic-thing-us-politicians-ever-rammed-down-the-public-throat/742261/79 "2016-01-10T13:24:42Z")
Martial Law? ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2016, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-undemocratic-thing-us-politicians-ever-rammed-down-the-public-throat/742261/80 "2016-01-10T23:45:08Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > But it’s not like the President can just start a war all by himself. He absolutely can – anytime, anywhere. [The War Powers Resolution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Powers_Resolution) gives him carte blanche to invade anybody he wants for 60 days, and then, if Congress gets up on its hind legs and insists that he withdraw all the troops, he has 30 more days to do that. But AFAIK, Congress has never done that since the resolution was passed. For reference, it took less than three weeks for Baghdad to fall after Bush invaded in 2003, and Iraq was allegedly the most dangerous country in the world. So 60 days is forever. ETA: it’s true that he can’t _declare_ war all by himself, but we haven’t declared war on anybody since WWII, so that’s meaningless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-undemocratic-thing-us-politicians-ever-rammed-down-the-public-throat/742261.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-most-undemocratic-thing-us-politicians-ever-rammed-down-the-public-throat/742261.md?page=5)