# What's the Name of That City That Built Tunnels for all Their Trains? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 16, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-name-of-that-city-that-built-tunnels-for-all-their-trains/510345 "2009-09-16T17:51:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-name-of-that-city-that-built-tunnels-for-all-their-trains/510345/1 "2009-09-16T17:51:21Z")
There’s some city in the US (I think it might be in North Dakota) whose townsfolk got fed up with the noise and traffic tie-ups related to trains rolling through their town at grade crossings. To eliminate the problem, they dug a giant tunnel (or tunnels) under their city and, viola!, no more train problems. Does this ring a bell for anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Desert\_Nomad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desert_nomad/32/177_2.png) [@Desert\_Nomad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desert_Nomad)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-name-of-that-city-that-built-tunnels-for-all-their-trains/510345/2 "2009-09-16T18:20:45Z")
Reno, Nevada ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-name-of-that-city-that-built-tunnels-for-all-their-trains/510345/3 "2009-09-16T18:28:22Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > . . . viola! . . . Cello! ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-name-of-that-city-that-built-tunnels-for-all-their-trains/510345/4 "2009-09-16T18:59:25Z")
Well, New York City (or at least Manhattan) has tunnels for all trains, too. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-name-of-that-city-that-built-tunnels-for-all-their-trains/510345/5 "2009-09-16T19:04:00Z")
> [@Desert\_Nomad](#): > > Reno, Nevada Cool stuff. It’s called Retrac (Reno Transportation Rail Access Corridor ) and was just recently finished. [http://renotahoe.about.com/b/2009/02/01/the-retrac-train-trench-cover-is-finished.htm](http://renotahoe.about.com/b/2009/02/01/the-retrac-train-trench-cover-is-finished.htm) ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-name-of-that-city-that-built-tunnels-for-all-their-trains/510345/6 "2009-09-16T19:25:24Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Cello! OK, so I misspelled it. But at least I didn’t say “wallah” like so many l33t-speaking teenagers! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-name-of-that-city-that-built-tunnels-for-all-their-trains/510345/7 "2009-09-16T19:26:48Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Well, New York City (or at least Manhattan) has tunnels for all trains, too. True, you can see where the Metro North trains bound for Grand Central go under Park Avenue here, at 97th St: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=manhattan&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&split=0&gl=us&ei=YDmxSvrXCqaz8QborLGKDw&ll=40.787215,-73.952073&spn=0.001582,0.002647&t=h&z=19 The Penn Station trains from New Jersey only go under one block though. They do want to cover over the rest of it (the West Side Yards). https://maps.google.com/maps?q=40.820598,-73.926043&num=1&t=k&sll=40.820484,-73.924062&sspn=0.003162,0.005295&gl=us&ie=UTF8&ll=40.751865,-73.996568&spn=0.006331,0.010589&z=17 I’m not sure exactly where the LIRR trains to Penn come from. Perhaps they stay underground from the tunnel? I do know they have a grand plan in progress to let LIRR trains go to Grand Central: [http://www.mta.info/capconstr/esas/index.html](http://www.mta.info/capconstr/esas/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-name-of-that-city-that-built-tunnels-for-all-their-trains/510345/8 "2009-09-16T19:39:48Z")
St. Louis has a tunnel for trains coming downtown from the McKinley Bridge (now mostly used for rave parties) and another for trains coming across the Eads Bridge todowntown (now used for light rail). It isn’t that rare. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-name-of-that-city-that-built-tunnels-for-all-their-trains/510345/9 "2009-09-16T19:40:39Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > OK, so I misspelled it. But at least I didn’t say “wallah” like so many l33t-speaking teenagers! :smack: No, [that’s in Washington](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walla_Walla,_Washington), and there’s no h. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-name-of-that-city-that-built-tunnels-for-all-their-trains/510345/10 "2009-09-16T19:49:00Z")
> [@SmackFu](#): > > I’m not sure exactly where the LIRR trains to Penn come from. Perhaps they stay underground from the tunnel? It’s been years since I’ve traveled that way, but the trains do go underground somewhere after Jamaica (LIRR passengers always had to change trains at Jamaica; the diesels they run in the open were not allowed in the tunnels. Nowadays, they have electric/diesel hybrids so perhaps passengers don’t have to change any more.) ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-name-of-that-city-that-built-tunnels-for-all-their-trains/510345/11 "2009-09-16T20:05:17Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > It’s been years since I’ve traveled that way, but the trains do go underground somewhere after Jamaica They enter the East River Tunnel after passing through Long Island City (well after Jamaica.) The ERT is actually owned by Amtrak and not the LIRR, and goes right into Penn. > [@](#): > > (LIRR passengers always had to change trains at Jamaica; the diesels they run in the open were not allowed in the tunnels. Nowadays, they have electric/diesel hybrids so perhaps passengers don’t have to change any more.) It depends if you’re going into Manhattan or not; other trains terminate on Flatbush Ave., Hunters Point and Long Island City. Jamaica is the LIRR’s hub; everything passes through there. ETA: Except the Port Washington branch, of course. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-name-of-that-city-that-built-tunnels-for-all-their-trains/510345/12 "2009-09-16T20:22:21Z")
> [@](#): > > (LIRR passengers always had to change trains at Jamaica; the diesels they run in the open were not allowed in the tunnels. Nowadays, they have electric/diesel hybrids so perhaps passengers don’t have to change any more.) All diesels are electric/diesel hybrids. In ordinary operation, they use the diesel engine to drive a generator which drives motors at the wheels, but it’s just as easy to stick a contact bar on the top and run the wheel motors from a catenary wire. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-name-of-that-city-that-built-tunnels-for-all-their-trains/510345/13 "2009-09-17T03:04:33Z")
The old Great Northern mainline (now one of the main BNSF East-West routes) goes through a big tunnel under downtown Seattle. But that was an instance of the townsfolk refusing to let them build the surface tracks in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-name-of-that-city-that-built-tunnels-for-all-their-trains/510345/14 "2009-09-17T14:52:25Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > All diesels are electric/diesel hybrids. In ordinary operation, they use the diesel engine to drive a generator which drives motors at the wheels, but it’s just as easy to stick a contact bar on the top and run the wheel motors from a catenary wire. Not in the Long Island Railroad’s case. These trains were made by GM (I think) and are unique to the LIRR and can be distinguished by their cab numbers. The 400 series are purely diesel fueled. The 500 series use diesel fuel but can switch to electric via the 3rd rail (no caternary). Our south shore line is not completely electrified. I’ll check my book to confirm the manufacturer, but I am certain that this model was only made for the LIRR. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-name-of-that-city-that-built-tunnels-for-all-their-trains/510345/15 "2009-09-17T17:12:02Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Not in the Long Island Railroad’s case. These trains were made by GM (I think) and are unique to the LIRR and can be distinguished by their cab numbers. The 400 series are purely diesel fueled. > The 500 series use diesel fuel but can switch to electric via the 3rd rail (no caternary). Our south shore line is not completely electrified. Even if the locomotive isn’t equipped to take line power it’s still almost certainly a diesel-electric. Except for some very old small switcher engines, all diesel locomotives use the diesel to generate power for traction motors simply because it’s cheaper/lighter/torquey-er/simpler than a direct drive transmission. I think the point chronos was making was just that it is relatively simple to design a diesel electric that can run on line power, not that all of them can. Also GM’s electro-motive division (EMD) has long been one of the largest manufacturers of diesel-electric locomotives. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-name-of-that-city-that-built-tunnels-for-all-their-trains/510345/16 "2009-09-17T21:03:14Z")
I checked and have clarification. Yes, theay are diesel elctric hybrids. But they cannot run on diesel in the tunnels due to their exhaust. Here’s a quote from a LIRR enthusiast site: The Eastern end of the Island (among other places) is Diesel territory. The Railroad’s M-7 and M-3 electric trains cannot operate East of Babylon or Ronkonkoma. What the LIRR uses are Diesel-Electric and Dual-mode Locomotives in these areas. Dual-mode locomotives can generate their own electricity for the traction motors, or draw it from the third rail in electrified territory. This enables the Dual-Mode locomotives to travel into Penn Station; something the Diesel Electrics (DE) cannot do due to the exhaust they produce. The LIRR’s diesel fleet currently consists of 45 locomotives. 23 are Diesel-Electrics and 22 are Dual-Modes. These numbers were originally identical, but one Dual-Mode, # 503, was damaged beyond recovery due to a fire several years back, and is currently sitting on a scrap line. The Diesel-Electrics (DE30AC)'s are 400 series numbers; The Dual-Modes (DM30AC)'s are 500 series numbers. The easiest way to tell them apart (other than the numbers) being the lack of third-rail shoes on the DE’s.