# What's the next move for the antivax crowd? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 12, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-next-move-for-the-antivax-crowd/567346 "2011-01-12T15:13:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-next-move-for-the-antivax-crowd/567346/61 "2011-01-15T20:12:02Z")
In many ways the anti-vacc people have won. “Vaccine” has become a dirty word, something we should be scared of by default and need reassurance about. They’ve made plenty of money, and probably recruited lots of people who’ll forget the whole reason they initially shunned conventional meds turned out to be complete BS. They will slowly disperse from this topic though. And not because of any data, just because no-one’s thought of any juicy developments to keep this in the public consciousness (alas, “MMR is safe” is not a juicy development) * * * Just realised something too…the OP is about a conspiracy. We’re fighting antivac with a conspiracy theory 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Maiira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Maiira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maiira)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-next-move-for-the-antivax-crowd/567346/62 "2011-01-15T21:39:15Z")
Newsweek recently had an article proclaiming how ironic it was that some of the same people who choose not to vaccinate their children are also the kind of people who put Darwin fishes on the backs of their cars. So they mock and protest folks who trust emotions over facts…and then trust emotions over facts. If time travel ever becomes a reality, one of the very first things that should be done is to send some anti-vaxers over to the nineteenth century and have them watch a small child die of diptheria. And then they should be forced to watch the family grieve. Even if vaccines were somehow connected to autism (or any other bullshit “side effects” these people claim to have experienced), I’d choose that over my kid dying of a terrible, wasting disease any day of the week. I tell you, these people are a wonder. I think Jenny McCarthy even said something along the lines of “well, maybe some of these diseases SHOULD come back, so that the doctors can see that they need to improve their vaccines!” If anything, these diseases should come back so that people know that _vaccines are a good thing._ ---
**Author:** ![thirdwarning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@thirdwarning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdwarning)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-next-move-for-the-antivax-crowd/567346/63 "2011-01-15T23:10:49Z")
I have actually seen some of these people say things like, “Well, people die. That’s life.” And, “If he died of the disease it was probably because he was weak anyway.” Many of them truly do seem to see illness as some kind of moral situation, where if you just do all the right things you won’t get sick. Feeding your children all the proper foods (organic, natural), drinking only pure water (no fluoride) and doing whatever you need to do to ‘strengthen’ the immune system (supplements, to the point of near overdose), will guarantee them protection from the evil diseases. Of course, many of them, either openly or by action, deny germ theory, too, so it’s no good to tell them that any of the people around them could be contagious. Nope, they know exactly what they need to do to protect their children, and that doesn’t include shooting them full of toxins, thankyouverymuch. ---
**Author:** ![Maiira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Maiira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maiira)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-next-move-for-the-antivax-crowd/567346/64 "2011-01-15T23:18:45Z")
> [@thirdwarning](#): > > I have actually seen some of these people say things like, “Well, people die. That’s life.” And, “If he died of the disease it was probably because he was weak anyway.” Ah, so now I have something to add to my time-travel scenario: have the anti-vaxers tell this to the dead child’s family. Then make bets to see if said anti-vaxers will escape with their lives. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-next-move-for-the-antivax-crowd/567346/65 "2011-01-16T00:30:35Z")
> [@thirdwarning](#): > > I have actually seen some of these people say things like, “Well, people die. That’s life.” And, “If he died of the disease it was probably because he was weak anyway.” Many of them truly do seem to see illness as some kind of moral situation, where if you just do all the right things you won’t get sick. Feeding your children all the proper foods (organic, natural), drinking only pure water (no fluoride) and doing whatever you need to do to ‘strengthen’ the immune system (supplements, to the point of near overdose), will guarantee them protection from the evil diseases. \ That reminds me about how whenever they talk about someone getting cancer in the news, they talk about winning or losing the fight / battle with cancer. While a fight mentality might help the sufferers (whatever the outcome), I think it paints the wrong picture among the general public. The battle is basically taking place at the cellular level. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-next-move-for-the-antivax-crowd/567346/66 "2011-01-16T03:54:51Z")
> [@Maiira](#): > > Ah, so now I have something to add to my time-travel scenario: have the anti-vaxers tell this to the dead child’s family. Then make bets to see if said anti-vaxers will escape with their lives. Then you mention how this disease is part of an ongoing pandemic that they might otherwise have been vaccinated against, give them a firm handshake and a “Good luck” and get back in the time machine without them. OK, I wouldn’t really do that, but it’s something that came to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-next-move-for-the-antivax-crowd/567346/67 "2011-01-16T05:14:05Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > In many ways the anti-vacc people have won. > > “Vaccine” has become a dirty word, something we should be scared of by default and need reassurance about. I disagree. Vaccine uptake remains high, even if it has decreased in scattered areas where credulousness and “philosophical exemptions” rule. Thankfully :dubious: there have been outbreaks of disease sufficient to keep the hazards of vaccine refusal in the news. Plus, recent events show that the antivaxers were right in warning about a profit motive behind the release of false and deceptive information about vaccines - only it’s their own heroes like Wakefield who’ve been implicated. Their cause has taken a hit; how severe remains to be seen. > [@Maiira](#): > > Newsweek recently had an article proclaiming how ironic it was that some of the same people who choose not to vaccinate their children are also the kind of people who put Darwin fishes on the backs of their cars. If there’s evidence of correlation between the tendency to mock religion (or supporting the teaching of evolution) and being antivax, I’d like to see it. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-next-move-for-the-antivax-crowd/567346/68 "2011-01-16T07:58:24Z")
My first MMR shot is what led to my seizure at 16 months, and is why I died. So, when I had to get the second one, I got myself tested to show it was unnecessary (as I was still immune), and thus avoided it. That still doesn’t mean I won’t vaccinate any of my kids (assuming I have them). I’ll just want to be extra vigilant for a few weeks after they get the shot. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-next-move-for-the-antivax-crowd/567346/69 "2011-01-16T08:00:32Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > If there’s evidence of correlation between the tendency to mock religion (or supporting the teaching of evolution) and being antivax, I’d like to see it. My own experience is that it goes the other way. Every antivaxer I have ever met has been very religious. There also seems to be correlation with belief in [other] woo. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-next-move-for-the-antivax-crowd/567346/70 "2011-01-16T08:00:41Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > My first MMR shot is what led to my seizure at 16 months, and is why I died. So, when I had to get the second one, I got myself tested to show it was unnecessary (as I was still immune), and thus avoided it. > > That still doesn’t mean I won’t vaccinate any of my kids (assuming I have them). I’ll just want to be extra vigilant for a few weeks after they get the shot. I’m guessing either you were revived, or the afterlife has internet, right? Either would be good to hear, of course. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-next-move-for-the-antivax-crowd/567346/71 "2011-01-16T19:24:34Z")
Regarding the current state of ignorance due to vaccination success, I did a whole bunch of research on the common childhood diseases a couple of years ago, and made up short descriptions for them, including the severity and mortality rates. Feel free to send this link to anyone you think needs to know what they’re talking about when they talk about childhood diseases. [Description of childhood diseases we vaccinate for.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10125195) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-next-move-for-the-antivax-crowd/567346/72 "2011-01-16T19:25:19Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > Heck-if you want a bad disease that vaccines prevent, why not go with tetanus? It’s got about a 50% mortality in unvaccinated people, it’s found in soil all over the world, you can get it from stepping on a nail or cutting your foot (has anybody here _never_ stepped on something that made their foot bleed?) and it causes excruciatingly painful muscle spasm before it kills you. All in all, not a very pleasant disease. My grandmother had a brother that died of tetanus when he was seven – from stepping on a rusty nail in their grandparents’ barn. Another brother died at age three from whooping cough. (This would have been in the 1920s) I’m guessing that my great-grandparents would have been willing to accept the risks, if their sons could have lived. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-next-move-for-the-antivax-crowd/567346/73 "2011-01-18T02:17:36Z")
> [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Here you go, kiddo - in cartoon form, even: [Darryl Cunningham Investigates: The Facts In The Case Of Dr. Andrew Wakefield](http://darryl-cunningham.blogspot.com/2010/05/facts-in-case-of-dr-andrew-wakefield.html) Omigod! Andrew Wakefield is “Q” from the Star Trek series. No wonder he is wreaking havoc with human beings. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-next-move-for-the-antivax-crowd/567346/74 "2011-01-19T00:17:00Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Regarding the current state of ignorance due to vaccination success, I did a whole bunch of research on the common childhood diseases a couple of years ago, and made up short descriptions for them, including the severity and mortality rates. Feel free to send this link to anyone you think needs to know what they’re talking about when they talk about childhood diseases. > > [Description of childhood diseases we vaccinate for.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10125195) Hmm, apparently the mothering boards are not open to someone posting medical facts. Pity. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-next-move-for-the-antivax-crowd/567346/75 "2011-01-19T00:28:39Z")
Any guess or analysis of their next move would a shot in the dark IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-next-move-for-the-antivax-crowd/567346/76 "2011-01-19T00:40:38Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Any guess or analysis of their next move would a shot in the dark IMO. Could be a swing or a miss on my part, but I’m betting their next move might have something to do with forgoing a vaccination. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-next-move-for-the-antivax-crowd/567346/77 "2011-01-19T00:55:10Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Hmm, apparently the mothering boards are not open to someone posting medical facts. Pity. 🙂 _Mothering_ is one of the single worst places on the net. The anti-vax forum is full of lunatics reading nonsense and congratulating each other for giving their children chicken pox and measles. The only worse board over there is the unassisted homebirthing board. The crazies believe that even a women overdue with triplets and leaking amniotic fluid should attempt to give birth at home by herself. Then again what can you expect from a magazine that put AIDS denialist [Christine Maggiore](http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=6558202&page=1) on their cover? > [@](#): > > [Death of an AIDS Skeptic - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=6558202&page=1) > > Since 1992, Maggiore founded two HIV/AIDS skeptic groups, including the Alive and Well AIDS Alternatives group in Los Angeles. Later, she traveled to Africa and is said to have personally influenced former South African President Thabo Mbeki’s decision to block funding for HIV-positive pregnant women in South Africa. > > Maggiore also appeared on TV, in Mothering magazine and in documentaries describing her decision to marry, have unprotected sex, and later breast-feed her two children without taking the drug AZT, which is typically prescribed to prevent an HIV transmission from mother to baby. Ironically even though I was banned from their forums I got an email today asking how to make the forums better. I had a lot fun calling them fear mongering assholes who should be run off the net. ---
**Author:** ![thirdwarning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@thirdwarning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdwarning)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-next-move-for-the-antivax-crowd/567346/78 "2011-01-19T03:07:01Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Any guess or analysis of their next move would a shot in the dark IMO. I see what you did there. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2011, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-next-move-for-the-antivax-crowd/567346/79 "2011-01-19T05:34:33Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > _Mothering_ is one of the single worst places on the net. The anti-vax forum is full of lunatics reading nonsense and congratulating each other for giving their children chicken pox and measles. \ Heh - I posted in a thread about wondering if she should expose her two young kids to chickenpox. I kindly informed her that up to 100 kids die of chickenpox in the US every year, but zero kids have died of the vaccination (complete with cites). ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2011, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-next-move-for-the-antivax-crowd/567346/80 "2011-01-20T01:05:50Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > Heh - I posted in a thread about wondering if she should expose her two young kids to chickenpox. I kindly informed her that up to 100 kids die of chickenpox in the US every year, but zero kids have died of the vaccination (complete with cites). So are you banned at [mothering.com](http://mothering.com) as well? Do they just ban people for knowing what they’re talking about, or is there a cover reason? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-next-move-for-the-antivax-crowd/567346.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-next-move-for-the-antivax-crowd/567346.md?page=5)