# What's the oldest computer that can still be used to view the Web? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 17, 2007, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-computer-that-can-still-be-used-to-view-the-web/412077 "2007-07-17T01:54:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-computer-that-can-still-be-used-to-view-the-web/412077/1 "2007-07-17T01:54:28Z")
I know there are Web browsers available for older Macintosh computers, the Commodore Amiga, and the Atari ST. I’m wondering if it’s possible to surf the Web on even older computers; that is, they can be hooked up to the Internet, preferably with an Ethernet connection, and there is a Web browser available for them. For the sake of this question, terminal emulators connected to a remote computer running a text-based browser don’t count; the browser has to be native. ---
**Author:** ![Gengis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@Gengis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gengis)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-computer-that-can-still-be-used-to-view-the-web/412077/2 "2007-07-17T02:02:40Z")
How old are we talking about? I know my 1997 G3/266 beige tower Mac does the web, via ethernet, with IE 5 (IIRC). I’ve also surfed via Win95 on an old 486, again using IE4 or 5. They work, but not terribly well. Flash and javascripts are iffy. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-computer-that-can-still-be-used-to-view-the-web/412077/3 "2007-07-17T02:07:44Z")
Not sure if this is what you’re looking for but [Contiki](http://www.sics.se/contiki/about-contiki.html) can be used on the Commodore 64 to surf the web. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-computer-that-can-still-be-used-to-view-the-web/412077/4 "2007-07-17T02:08:20Z")
Well, first off, the computer has to be able to _connerct_ to the Web. If we’re not using any intermediate equipment other than a modem, that presumes that it has a TCP/IP stack and can handle at least a dialup modem interface. If we are allowing intermediate equipment, presumably that lets us into the territory of serial terminals hanging off a mainframe or minicomputer connected to the Web. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-computer-that-can-still-be-used-to-view-the-web/412077/5 "2007-07-17T03:13:59Z")
[Browsing the Web from an 1984 Apple II Computer](http://digg.com/apple/Browsing_the_Web_from_an_1984_Apple_II_Computer) ([Video](http://www.sics.se/contiki/perspective/browsing-the-web-from-an-apple-ii-with-contiki.html)) ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-computer-that-can-still-be-used-to-view-the-web/412077/6 "2007-07-17T04:51:24Z")
I’ve browsed the web from a 386SX 16Mhz running DOS 6.2 but that’s not nearly as old as some of the other computers mentioned. The setup I was using was 32-bit, so 286 won’t cut it. ---
**Author:** ![Gengis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@Gengis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gengis)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-computer-that-can-still-be-used-to-view-the-web/412077/7 "2007-07-17T05:33:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Browsing the Web from an 1984 Apple II Computer (Video) Wow - thanks for the link, Squink! That really brings me back to my old BBS days. It’s almost inconceivable what the web is now. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-computer-that-can-still-be-used-to-view-the-web/412077/8 "2007-07-17T12:42:12Z")
They make a web browser for VMS for the old VAX computers. That will get you back to the late 1970’s. A Vax 11/780 (circa 1977) runs roughly as fast as a 386. Not exactly blazing speed, but it will work. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-computer-that-can-still-be-used-to-view-the-web/412077/9 "2007-07-17T13:22:59Z")
I am so gonna write a browser for a Vic-20. I oughta be able to do it in 3.5K memory, right? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-computer-that-can-still-be-used-to-view-the-web/412077/10 "2007-07-17T14:07:47Z")
[QUOTE=Athena] I am so gonna write a browser for a Vic-20. I oughta be able to do it in 3.5K memory, right? 😃 [/QUOTE] It would be difficult but you would probably make a fortune. All of the VIC-20 users I know say their only complaint is he lack of a good web browser. ---
**Author:** ![Guy\_Betty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Guy\_Betty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guy_Betty)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-computer-that-can-still-be-used-to-view-the-web/412077/11 "2007-07-17T14:34:13Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] [Browsing the Web from an 1984 Apple II Computer](http://digg.com/apple/Browsing_the_Web_from_an_1984_Apple_II_Computer) ([Video](http://www.sics.se/contiki/perspective/browsing-the-web-from-an-apple-ii-with-contiki.html)) [/QUOTE] Cool! ---
**Author:** ![ASAKMOTSD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@ASAKMOTSD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASAKMOTSD)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-computer-that-can-still-be-used-to-view-the-web/412077/12 "2007-07-17T15:06:57Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] [Browsing the Web from an 1984 Apple II Computer](http://digg.com/apple/Browsing_the_Web_from_an_1984_Apple_II_Computer) ([Video](http://www.sics.se/contiki/perspective/browsing-the-web-from-an-apple-ii-with-contiki.html)) [/QUOTE] Whoa - I am imagining the thrill of watching that at 110 BAUD like in the old days when 300 BAUD was too screaming fast for those dirty phone lines… :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-computer-that-can-still-be-used-to-view-the-web/412077/13 "2007-07-17T15:15:59Z")
:: ponders a web browser on my ZX81 :: ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-computer-that-can-still-be-used-to-view-the-web/412077/14 "2007-07-17T17:38:00Z")
IBM mainframes have a web browser called Charlotte. I don’t know what language and libraries are needed for deploying it, but depending on how far back it can go, you may have another candidate. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-computer-that-can-still-be-used-to-view-the-web/412077/15 "2007-07-17T18:19:34Z")
Charlotte runs on VM/CMS, and was developed in 1996. [Text of an interview with Carl Forde, its developer.](http://www.rexxla.org/Newsletter/9812charlotte.html) ETA: Worth noting is that it’s text-only. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-computer-that-can-still-be-used-to-view-the-web/412077/16 "2007-07-17T18:29:02Z")
I don’t know if this counts, but I’ve used a Commodore 64 back in '94 to telnet into my university account, and then used lynx through the server to browse Web pages. I imagine you’d be able to do this with a VIC-20 just as well, although the formatting would be all screwed up with the 20 columns the VIC-20 has. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-computer-that-can-still-be-used-to-view-the-web/412077/17 "2007-07-17T21:48:36Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] I don’t know if this counts, but I’ve used a Commodore 64 back in '94 to telnet into my university account, and then used lynx through the server to browse Web pages. I imagine you’d be able to do this with a VIC-20 just as well, although the formatting would be all screwed up with the 20 columns the VIC-20 has. [/QUOTE] Thing is, lynx isn’t running native on your VIC-20. ---
**Author:** ![Crescend](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Crescend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crescend)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-computer-that-can-still-be-used-to-view-the-web/412077/18 "2007-07-17T21:55:52Z")
Can you run Lynx on the original PDP-11? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-computer-that-can-still-be-used-to-view-the-web/412077/19 "2007-07-17T22:13:47Z")
[QUOTE=elmwood] Thing is, lynx isn’t running native on your VIC-20. [/QUOTE] No, it’s certainly not, which was the reason for “I’m not sure if this counts.” I wonder how big lynx is. I don’t know if you can fit it in the VIC-20’s unexpanded RAM (3.5K), but I’m sure you could probably stick it on a cartridge. Although, I seem to recall that the VICModem used the cartridge slot. Plus you’d have to significantly rewrite lynx (plus the networking program) for it to work on the VIC-20, I imagine, so you might as well start from scratch. ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-computer-that-can-still-be-used-to-view-the-web/412077/20 "2007-07-17T22:20:32Z")
[QUOTE=elmwood] Thing is, lynx isn’t running native on your VIC-20. [/QUOTE] Well, the VIC-20 had available: – a 64KB RAM expansion cartridge – VICmodem 300 baud modem – Commodore 1571 340KB floppy drive There’s a TCP/IP stack for 6502 based computers [here](http://www.paradroid.net/ip65/) So I wouldn’t say web browsing would be an impossible feat. P.S. I found a [VIC-20 web server :eek: :eek: :eek:](http://web.archive.org/web/20060101140254/http://www.themotionstore.com/leeedavison/6502/vic20/network/index.html). Unfortunately the original page seems to have fallen off the edge of the web. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-computer-that-can-still-be-used-to-view-the-web/412077.md?page=2)