# What's the oldest pseudoscience or general worldview / belief that is still widely believed / practiced? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 5, 2023, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-pseudoscience-or-general-worldview-belief-that-is-still-widely-believed-practiced/977725 "2023-01-05T15:24:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jaycat.again](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat.again/32/11525_2.png) [@Jaycat.again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaycat.again)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-pseudoscience-or-general-worldview-belief-that-is-still-widely-believed-practiced/977725/41 "2023-01-05T23:15:02Z")
I nominate “Keeping Kosher.” Or, for that matter, organized religion in general. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-pseudoscience-or-general-worldview-belief-that-is-still-widely-believed-practiced/977725/42 "2023-01-06T00:26:33Z")
I was going to nominate a large swath of psychology. It’s not all bunk, but there is a pretty wide proliferation of therapists pulling stuff out of their rear ends and this stuff has spread to the general population such that there are wildly incorrect theories about PTSD, ADHD, NPD and other disorders floating around on social media. There are still many theories in practice today based on groundless Freudian psychology. But I don’t think that’s as old as astrology. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-pseudoscience-or-general-worldview-belief-that-is-still-widely-believed-practiced/977725/43 "2023-01-06T00:27:50Z")
I wonder if any surviving pseudoscientific aspects of midwifery qualify (if there are any). It _is_ one of the oldest professions. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-pseudoscience-or-general-worldview-belief-that-is-still-widely-believed-practiced/977725/44 "2023-01-06T00:32:30Z")
What about acupuncture? Otzi, the Alpine iceman found in a glacier about 30 years ago, had many tattoos, and some of them were in places that are indeed used now for acupuncture. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-pseudoscience-or-general-worldview-belief-that-is-still-widely-believed-practiced/977725/45 "2023-01-06T00:34:53Z")
Oh, great contribution. It’s incredible the amount of pseudoscientific crap I encountered when I was pregnant. I even took a hypnobirthing class that made wildly unscientific claims about the benefits of unmedicated childbirth - usually by creating this web of lies about modern medicine. It was so objectively false, we quit the class midway. This stuff is trending right now, big time. Along with attachment parenting and other notions apparently designed to make new mothers suffer as much as humanly possible. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-pseudoscience-or-general-worldview-belief-that-is-still-widely-believed-practiced/977725/46 "2023-01-06T00:35:13Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > But I don’t think that’s as old as astrology. No, that’s really only as old as Freud. Modern psychology as a serious branch of scientific medicine began there, sadly on the wrong foot. He pulled most of his theories out his ass, as you mentioned, but somehow he gave others enough food for thought to consider psychology and psychiatry as objects of science. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-pseudoscience-or-general-worldview-belief-that-is-still-widely-believed-practiced/977725/47 "2023-01-06T00:37:37Z")
Well, I think you could maybe argue that psychology started with philosophy, which is pretty old. Making claims about human nature and what makes people really happy or unhappy goes back quite a ways. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-pseudoscience-or-general-worldview-belief-that-is-still-widely-believed-practiced/977725/48 "2023-01-06T00:39:14Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > Prevagen is made from ‘immortal’ jellyfish. > By consuming jellyfish’s proteins, one can supposedly improve one’s memory. Alternatively you could get to keep a really shit memory for a really long time. ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-pseudoscience-or-general-worldview-belief-that-is-still-widely-believed-practiced/977725/49 "2023-01-06T00:40:38Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Even in the west, astronomy emerged from astrology, and chemistry emerged from alchemy. Like it or not, the irrational has always served as the basis for the rational. Agree. But we tend to deny it. > [@solost](#): > > Ok, but we don’t still practice alchemy (at least not widely- some weirdo somewhere might still be trying to turn lead into gold in their basement 🙄). If you believe that westerners are more committed to rational science, then how do you account for this statement : “…higher-income pockets in Europe have less confidence in vaccines than lower-income countries in Africa” [This is the most anti-vaxxer country in the world - MarketWatch](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-is-the-most-anti-vaxxer-country-in-the-world-2019-06-19) ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-pseudoscience-or-general-worldview-belief-that-is-still-widely-believed-practiced/977725/50 "2023-01-06T01:01:05Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I even took a hypnobirthing class that made wildly unscientific claims about the benefits of unmedicated childbirth - usually by creating this web of lies about modern medicine. While it sounds like you were exposed to quackery, apparently [in 1985](http://www.weikert.de/alexandra/who1.html) the WHO recommended against anesthetics during labor unless indicated to prevent complications. > During delivery, the routine administration of analgesic or anesthetic drugs, that are not specifically required to correct or prevent a complication in delivery, should be avoided. Contrast with [a 2019 document](https://www.acog.org/clinical/clinical-guidance/committee-opinion/articles/2019/02/approaches-to-limit-intervention-during-labor-and-birth) published by the Committee on Obstetric Practice, of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. > The importance of avoiding versus seeking pharmacologic analgesia or epidural anesthesia will vary with individual patient values and medical circumstances. In the hospital setting, pharmacologic analgesia should be available for all women in labor who desire medication. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-pseudoscience-or-general-worldview-belief-that-is-still-widely-believed-practiced/977725/51 "2023-01-06T01:16:49Z")
Have you ever heard of the “cascade of interventions” claim made by unmedicated childbirth proponents? Supposedly, if a woman chooses anesthesia, she’s more likely to suffer other complications which lead to more interventions. Also Cesareans interfere with the mother/child bond. They also make a big deal about how the number of C-sections rose precipitously over the last several decades while ignoring the fact that maternal and infant deaths plummeted over the same period of time. This and other lies can be found in the documentary _The Business of Being Born_ which nicely summarizes what these people believe. At one point a so-called expert implied Cesarians were to blame for autism and ADHD. It’s a very slick documentary. I found it very moving. Too bad it was complete BS. I’m trying to recall what the book on Hypnobirthing said that got me so upset. Ah, yes. When women have difficult births, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy due to their negative expectations about childbirth being painful, as well as their desire to be the center of attention. This class was sponsored by a _hospital._ And these are ancient attitudes about childbirth. There are historical accounts of women being punished for asking for pain relief and one woman was even burned alive. There have been times when medical professionals believed women who required pain medication were of inferior character. It’s bonkers. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-pseudoscience-or-general-worldview-belief-that-is-still-widely-believed-practiced/977725/52 "2023-01-06T01:28:14Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > There have been times when medical professionals believed women who required pain medication were of inferior character. > > It’s bonkers. - “Giving birth is like taking your lower lip and forcing it over your head.”- Carol Burnett ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-pseudoscience-or-general-worldview-belief-that-is-still-widely-believed-practiced/977725/53 "2023-01-06T01:34:19Z")
Fortunately I was so drugged up I barely remember it! It wasn’t the epidural, it was the morphine. Morphine didn’t do much for the pain but it really sped up my perception of time so it was over before I knew it. At least in retrospect. I do remember very clearly at one point saying to myself, “Look, you’re probably not going to remember how painful this is, so I want you to take this minute right now to remember how much this absolutely sucks and how you never want to do it again.” I do remember that mental note. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-pseudoscience-or-general-worldview-belief-that-is-still-widely-believed-practiced/977725/54 "2023-01-06T01:42:55Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > If you believe that westerners are more committed to rational science, then how do you account for this statement : “…higher-income pockets in Europe have less confidence in vaccines than lower-income countries in Africa” [This is the most anti-vaxxer country in the world - MarketWatch](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-is-the-most-anti-vaxxer-country-in-the-world-2019-06-19) @solost didn’t say anything about what parts of the world are more committed to rational science. Yes, people everywhere are subject to irrationality. But by and large, we’re not still subject to the specific irrationality of alchemy. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-pseudoscience-or-general-worldview-belief-that-is-still-widely-believed-practiced/977725/55 "2023-01-06T01:44:25Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > one woman was even burned alive Gosh. That is just counterproductive. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-pseudoscience-or-general-worldview-belief-that-is-still-widely-believed-practiced/977725/56 "2023-01-06T01:44:46Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > When women have difficult births, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy due to their negative expectations about childbirth being painful, as well as their desire to be the center of attention. That particular belief is called maternal impression, and it has a long and sordid history. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-pseudoscience-or-general-worldview-belief-that-is-still-widely-believed-practiced/977725/57 "2023-01-06T02:26:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But by and large, we’re not still subject to the specific irrationality of alchemy. When I go to most supermarkets or warehouses like Costco these days, the aisles are full of “supplements”. I think the US market for supplements is 50 Billion USD + . I frequently see many preparations on the shelf which were the same alchemists used : for example colloidal copper. And then there is the homeopathy aisle. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-pseudoscience-or-general-worldview-belief-that-is-still-widely-believed-practiced/977725/58 "2023-01-06T03:09:10Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Even in the west, astronomy emerged from astrology Not really, depending what we mean by “emerged”. The OP’s Britannica cite is a bit misleading in that regard. Attempts to identify predictable patterns in celestial motions seem to have begun in prehistoric times, at least as much for practical calendric reasons as for “superstitious” ones. People had pragmatic motivations for figuring out how many days were in a month or a year, and how the length of day and night changed in the course of a year, and so on. These were largely independent of, although probably contemporary with, astral-divination beliefs about a particular apparently random celestial event being a supernatural omen or message from deities or whatever. Over time, the search for predictable astronomical patterns and the (attempted) identification of ominous astronomical phenomena merged into a single enterprise. And yeah, late third-millennium BCE Mesopotamia is the most likely locus for that development. But “astrology” in the sense of personal horoscopes based on planetary positions at a significant moment, generally birth, didn’t get going for another couple thousand years. The Hellenistic combination of Babylonian horoscope computations with Greek philosophers’ spherical geometric models of heaven and earth was the source of “Western zodiac” astrology in India and everywhere else. ---
**Author:** ![RivkahChaya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rivkahchaya/32/8919_2.png) [@RivkahChaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RivkahChaya)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-pseudoscience-or-general-worldview-belief-that-is-still-widely-believed-practiced/977725/59 "2023-01-06T03:22:50Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I always thought that if I invented a belief system I’d give myself a better than 1 in 12 shot of guessing right. Literally, 1 person in my life who actually believes in astrology has ever guessed my sun sign correctly. Which amuses me to no end. You’d think it would be 1 in 12, but nope. I even got the 3rd degree from someone who couldn’t believe she’d been so wrong. Was I “on the cusp”? and maybe wrong about my birthdate-- off by a few minutes, and had the actual day wrong? was I adopted, and the wrong day recorded? was the day I thought was my birthday the day I was placed with my parents (no, not adopted)? It was very funny. It was also funny that the single person who guessed went on a rant about all the psychic things that had happened to her lately. I’ve gotten new friends since then. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-pseudoscience-or-general-worldview-belief-that-is-still-widely-believed-practiced/977725/60 "2023-01-06T05:34:24Z")
Anesthetic and analgesic drugs, and their administration, changed a LOT between 1985 and 2019. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-pseudoscience-or-general-worldview-belief-that-is-still-widely-believed-practiced/977725.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-oldest-pseudoscience-or-general-worldview-belief-that-is-still-widely-believed-practiced/977725.md?page=4)