I really have nothing substantive to add; I just want to say that this has got to be one of the top ten coolest threads ever. An unfolding etymological thrillah!
I’ll post all of my cites thus far when I have time to do it proper. But let me say this, I have good sources on the story. I have no doubt regarding authenticity. However, I’m still trying to get a valid quote an original text or at least a copy. I may still be only reading versions of the story. I have found several thus far.
George Plumb is the brother of Preston Plumb. He was a congressman from Kansas. There is quite a bit of history on him to be found. My problem at this point is my authenticity. Seems like the libraries I’ve found that possess anything original will only allow “members” to view their archives. I’m hoping to get a peek at Preston Plumb’s memoirs/diary which should have an account of this story. There was a biography written about his life in 1914 IIRC.
samclem The piece I’m referring to is a magazine photo of a clipping taken from a newspaper article dated 1863 in the St. Louis (Times)? I’m writing this from a different PC and trying to recall everything, sorry. I’ll get you hooked proper up later. I’m running late for work and just wanted to give you something to chew on for awhile
Versions of this story can be found at the Kansas Historical Society and I’ve even found a few websites that mention it. Try looking for Wyoming and stages. Like I said, I’ll link some stuff later. I still think Bret Harte is going to emerge in this yet. He was a reporter in the area at the time of the 1863 incident. There was a recent massacre in the area and he also worked for Overland. He was editor of the monthly report. It turns out that brother Preston Plumb served in the 11th Cavalry and helped establish the Overland Stage by providing military escorts and engaging in many indian battles. My curiosity as to whether…not whether but rather WHEN did he and Harte meet. I say this because Plumb eventually wound up involved in the newspaper business.
Perhaps also relevent is that I’ve found sources claiming John Ford made two movies based on works written by Harte. I recall one mentioned was “Three Godfather’s”. Man, I gotta go. I’d love to stay here all day but somebody’s gotta pay the damned bills around here. See y’all later.
Here are three online historical references to folks riding shotgun: Galen Hill, the Prince of Wales, and Wyatt Earp. They seem to be more recent accounts, but they refer to incidents that may have historical accounts associated with them.
RM Mentock I hear ya… I’ve already checked out your first cite. Talked to the site owner today even. He has lots of actual quotes but also has some paraphrased versions (I hope that’s a fair way of saying it.) I’m not implying anything bad. The site is cool and the information is great. The guy was very helpful IMHO. But ya gotta watch for the change-ups. It turned out to be a version of a version…
Just got home at dark and am gonna check a few cites. I love the true stuff I’ve been reading but that really doesn’t matter does it? We’re looking for the usage in either fact or fiction. It’s been damned interesting so far (to me) connecting the dots and finding the hidden clues and learning lots of stuff along the way. I hadn’t realized that Twain had a problem with Harte. Hell, I didn’t really have a good understanding of Harte at all. What was that quote from Twain about hating to be accused of plagiarizing Harte’s stuff. Gotta love it. Moved his ass back outta California he did.
Anyway, I just wanted to check in tonight. I’m ff*in beat. I dropped a damned HUGE dead tree today (w/a chainsaw and winch) in high wind next to a house, a fence, a well, and some other crap. Didn’t tear it all up and didn’t cut off any fingers. Cut it up hauled it off and fought damned poison oak/ivy all day. Think I’ll hit the rack early. I’m waiting on a copy of the original article…hopefully I’ll get a reply this weekend. 'til then I think I’ll dig through a ton of old Confederate letters and stuff I’ve got ratholed.
y’all be
Here are three more: Eugene Blair, Deadwood Dick, and Mary Fields. The last one looks promising, since there seems to be a museum exhibit about her.
To pitch in one more, this web site appears to quote an 1877 Well Fargo notice:
NOTICE TO BULLION SHIPPERS
The Spring Clean-up will leave for Cheyenne on the Regular Stage at 7:00 a.m. next Monday. Wyatt Earp, of Dodge, will ride shotgun.
although it might be artistic license indulged in by the writer or her source(s).
It looks like the main source for that website is Stuart Lake’s book, Wyatt Earp – Frontier Marshal, published in 1931. That wouldn’t be earlier than samclem’s Washington Post article, but maybe the book itself has the evidence of earlier use that we need.
I’m getting damned tired of folks telling me that in order to view the archives it’s going to cost $$$ per page or per hour or per membership. I can’t be paying to view who knows how many pages. Hundreds/thousands…One library/museum was wanting me to actually pay them $20/hour to have someone search for me. WTF?
Berkley has the original letters from Harte and Twain but I can’t read them even though they have an online archive. Damnit man…isn’t some of this stuff supposed to be like historical documents that are free to read. I can’t get my hands on anything original. I’ve even read a ff’in copy’s of orders by BOTH Union and Confederate officers to have troops “ride shotgun” on stages and trains. But without a legit cite I’m just barkin up an empty tree.
I’m hanging tough though. I’m checking out some military tactics manuals printed in the Civil War right now. Pretty cool, the one I’m on now has strategies recommended in various situations. I’m thinking if both sides had the same book… it’s no wonder why it was often a bloodbath.
So where are we at with the date now?
samclem’s March 27, 1921 Washington Post fiction story, I believe.
:::[sub] Pssst. Dex - Ain’t it grand having these research assistants.[/sub]