# What's the origin of the "F" word? (1984) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [October 4, 2013, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-f-word-1984/670336 "2013-10-04T10:21:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![phatpherret](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@phatpherret](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phatpherret)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-f-word-1984/670336/1 "2013-10-04T10:21:31Z")
Twenty-nine years ago you said, “Richard Spears, author of the splendid ‘Slang and Euphemism’, says the word may be a disguise of the French foutre” Perhaps so; the now-quaint synonym “futter” is said to have been invented by none other than Captain Sir Richard Francis Burton from foutre. He certainly was familiar with both the act and the language. Thank you for your heroic efforts to ensure that no stone is left unturned, no question goes unanswered, and no curious mind is left behind. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-f-word-1984/670336/2 "2013-10-04T10:52:34Z")
Welcome to the Board, **phatpherret**. It helps if you link to the column in question so everyone can read along. You can simply cut and paste the link or dress it up using vB code. [What’s the origin of the “F” word?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1009/whats-the-origin-of-the-f-word) ---
**Author:** ![psythe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@psythe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psythe)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-f-word-1984/670336/3 "2013-10-04T23:19:47Z")
While I realize that Cecil was quoting another, far less diligent researcher, a couple of those synonyms struck me as dodgy. Having “a bun in the oven” was a euphemism for pregnancy, not sex. ([reference](http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/79350.html) Also “pizzle” is slang for the penis, not sex ([Wikipedia reference here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizzle) but you could also google “pizzle rot” if you’ve already had your dinner (admittedly this is most likely to occur just before the mating season so is perhaps not definitive). ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-f-word-1984/670336/4 "2013-10-05T01:36:46Z")
> [@phatpherret](#): > > Twenty-nine years ago you said, “Richard Spears, author of the splendid ‘Slang and Euphemism’, says the word may be a disguise of the French foutre” Perhaps so; the now-quaint synonym “futter” is said to have been invented by none other than Captain Sir Richard Francis Burton from foutre. He certainly was familiar with both the act and the language. What source says this about the word “futter?” ---
**Author:** ![Simon\_Templar\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Simon\_Templar\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simon_Templar_1)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-f-word-1984/670336/5 "2013-10-09T14:28:26Z")
You left out my all-time favorite euphemism. “Getting your pole greased” It’s from the novel “Paper Moon” by Joe David Brown. They left that out of the movie for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-f-word-1984/670336/6 "2013-10-09T15:26:44Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > What source says this about the word “futter?” Partridge, in a [Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English](http://books.google.com/books?id=IAjyQdFwh4UC&pg=PT1446&dq=futter+sir+richard+burton&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EXRVUpW2IZi24AOVwoGwCQ&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=futter%20sir%20richard%20burton&f=false). Taking it back a step, I see a problem. Except in Burton’s creative euphemism in the Arabian Nights, foutre is not considered related to fuck, or so says the [Online Etymology Dictionary](http://etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=foutre&searchmode=none). > [@](#): > > French foutre and Italian fottere look like the English word but are unrelated, derived rather from Latin futuere, which is perhaps from PIE root \*bhau(t)- “knock, strike off,” extended via a figurative use “from the sexual application of violent action” [Shipley; cf. the sexual slang use of bang, etc.]. Futter is used in two etymologies: > [@](#): > > fodder (n.) > Old English fodder “food,” especially “food for cattle,” from Proto-Germanic \*fodran (cf. Old Norse foðr, Middle Dutch voeder, Old High German fuotar, German Futter), from PIE \*patrom, from \*pa- “to feed” (see food). > [@](#): > > fur (n.) > late 14c. “trimming or lining of a garment” (implied c.1300 in surname Furhode “fur hood”), probably from Old French fourrer “to line, sheathe,” from fuerre “sheath, covering,” from Frankish \*fodr or another Germanic source (cf. Old Frisian foder “coat lining,” Old High German fotar “a lining,” German Futter, Gothic fodr “sword sheath”), from Proto-Germanic \*fodram “sheath.” Sword sheath could be a possible source for sexual slang. Vagina would be more likely than sex, though creative minds don’t in fact think alike. ---
**Author:** ![JamesCurran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@JamesCurran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JamesCurran)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-f-word-1984/670336/7 "2013-10-09T15:42:07Z")
The original question also askss about the original of the phrase “Fuck you”, which Cecil never really deals with. The important detail is that “Fuck You” is not syntactically correct English. However, the verbatim translation into German would be “figst du” (or “Figgen Sie” if you prefer to curse people out formally), and that would be syntactically correct German. (A passable English translation of “Figst du” would be “(Hey) You, Go Fuck (something)”) ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-f-word-1984/670336/8 "2013-10-09T15:49:40Z")
I read somewhere that fuck was originally an acronym for “Fraternization Under Consent of the King” ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-f-word-1984/670336/9 "2013-10-09T15:56:55Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > I read somewhere that fuck was originally an acronym for “Fraternization Under Consent of the King” Which Cecil points out as being rubbish. ---
**Author:** ![TGWATY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@TGWATY](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TGWATY)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-f-word-1984/670336/10 "2013-10-09T16:01:52Z")
My theory is the “fuck” is onomatopoeia ---
**Author:** ![Klaus\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ba8739/32.png) [@Klaus\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Klaus_K)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-f-word-1984/670336/11 "2013-10-09T18:15:53Z")
Having recently been to see Othello, I do quite like the “making the beast with two backs”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-f-word-1984/670336/12 "2013-10-09T19:00:38Z")
There is indeed a major problem with the column, which is the statement that the word comes from “German”. In normal English, “German” means Hochdeutsch—the language you’re taught in high-school “German” class, and “fuck” is not terribly likely to have come from Hochdeutsch. The most likely possibilities are:[ol] [li]it was native to Old English to begin with,[/li][li]it came in from Old Norse with the Vikings, or[/li][li](just maybe) it was picked up from Dutch sailors.[/li][/ol] In all these cases, it is _Germanic_, but that is not the same thing as _German_. ---
**Author:** ![stui\_magpie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stui_magpie/32/11010_2.png) [@stui\_magpie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stui_magpie)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-f-word-1984/670336/13 "2013-10-09T21:51:03Z")
> [@Klaus\_K](#): > > Having recently been to see Othello, I do quite like the “making the beast with two backs”. I’ve always liked “Spearing the bearded clam” or doing some “horizontal folk dancing”. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-f-word-1984/670336/14 "2013-10-09T22:02:05Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > There is indeed a major problem with the column, which is the statement that the word comes from “German”. In normal English, “German” means Hochdeutsch—the language you’re taught in high-school “German” class, and “fuck” is not terribly likely to have come from Hochdeutsch. The most likely possibilities are:[ol] > [li]it was native to Old English to begin with,[/li][li]it came in from Old Norse with the Vikings, or[/li][li](just maybe) it was picked up from Dutch sailors.[/li][/ol] > In all these cases, it is _Germanic_, but that is not the same thing as _German_. I also object to saying it comes from German. What seems most likely to me is that E. “fuck”, G. “ficken”. D. Fokken, the Old N. whatever, all come from a common source in Ur-Germanic. Which might or might not be related to F. “foutre”. My Partridge is even more bowdlerized than Cecil’s. It says of “f**k" that it is one of the two SE (standard English) words that cannot appear in print anywhere in the English speaking world. (The other is "c**t”.) My how times have changed! ---
**Author:** ![qazwart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/5fc32e/32.png) [@qazwart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qazwart)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-f-word-1984/670336/15 "2013-10-10T03:56:36Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > There is indeed a major problem with the column, which is the statement that the word comes from “German”. In normal English, “German” means Hochdeutsch—the language you’re taught in high-school “German” class, and “fuck” is not terribly likely to have come from Hochdeutsch. The most likely possibilities are:[ol] > [li]it was native to Old English to begin with,[/li][li]it came in from Old Norse with the Vikings, or[/li][li](just maybe) it was picked up from Dutch sailors.[/li][/ol] > In all these cases, it is _Germanic_, but that is not the same thing as _German_. Yes, you can pick up a lot of things from those Dutch sailors. ---
**Author:** ![qazwart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/5fc32e/32.png) [@qazwart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qazwart)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-f-word-1984/670336/16 "2013-10-10T03:59:59Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > I read somewhere that fuck was originally an acronym for “Fraternization Under Consent of the King” Actually, it’s a contraction for _Fire Truck_. As in “Here comes my fire truck ready to douse your fire!”. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-f-word-1984/670336/17 "2013-10-10T05:01:51Z")
> [@Simon\_Templar\_1](#): > > You left out my all-time favorite euphemism. “Getting your pole greased” It’s from the novel “Paper Moon” by Joe David Brown. They left that out of the movie for some reason. Wow, awesome, I had not realized that anyone else read that book. > [@JamesCurran](#): > > The original question also askss about the original of the phrase “Fuck you”, which Cecil never really deals with. > > The important detail is that “Fuck You” is not syntactically correct English. > > However, the verbatim translation into German would be “figst du” (or “Figgen Sie” if you prefer to curse people out formally), and that would be syntactically correct German. (A passable English translation of “Figst du” would be “(Hey) You, Go Fuck (something)”) He kind of does, though. He suggests a relationship to the German, Dutch and Danish words that also mean “strike” (which has come full circle in American slang: “I’d hit that”). While “Strike You!” does not really work and better that “fuck you”, English is rather a bastard language that is not always syntactically consistent. As long as we get the meaning, precision is not crucial. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-f-word-1984/670336/18 "2013-10-10T08:29:14Z")
What’s syntactically incorrect about _Fuck you_? It’s no different than _damn you_ or _bless you_. ---
**Author:** ![Coccinelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Coccinelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coccinelle)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-f-word-1984/670336/19 "2013-10-10T08:57:00Z")
I’m loving the euphemisms, keep em comin’. I can offer this one for penis: the bald headed hermit who works in the dark. ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2013, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-f-word-1984/670336/20 "2013-10-10T12:42:30Z")
Not sure if it counts as a euphemism… ‘One eyed jack’s yearnin to go a peepin in the seafood store’ - from David Lynch’s ‘Wild at Heart’ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-f-word-1984/670336.md?page=2)