# What's the origin of the "Valley Girl" accent? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 25, 2022, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-valley-girl-accent/963418 "2022-04-25T16:08:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-valley-girl-accent/963418/61 "2022-04-26T14:37:18Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > The most relevant part of this podcast is from 35:30 to 40:00 Note that certain sorority girls were likely the first to consistently use “uptalk” for this purpose. Deborah Tannen is a researcher on this, and her publications are very accessible to non-specialists. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-valley-girl-accent/963418/62 "2022-04-26T14:49:07Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > The mall has also been a shooting location for many films, most notably…the 1983 film _[Valley Girl](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_Girl_(1983_film))_ Valley Girl was _set_ in The Galleria, but was filmed in Del Amo mall in Torrance. Now Ahnold chasing David Patrick Kelly around the mall in _Commando_? That’s Sherman Oaks. Totally. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-valley-girl-accent/963418/63 "2022-04-26T15:00:10Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I’m amused by all of the incorrect speculation from people who are of the wrong age and who were hundreds of miles away. San Bernardino? Seriously? “All the speculation from people who are the wrong age and are hundreds of miles away” just means me saying San Bernardino once because I misremembered and then acknowledged the mistake. And I’m thousands of miles away, not mere hundreds. This is linguistically interesting, but California is pretty much a distant memory full of places named San Something. I barely know the shopping malls nearest me. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-valley-girl-accent/963418/64 "2022-04-26T15:06:08Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > “All the speculation from people who are the wrong age and are hundreds of miles away” just means me saying San Bernardino once because I misremembered and then acknowledged the mistake. And I’m thousands of miles away, not mere hundreds. I must say, I did have to run a search to find out who “all these people” were, to only find it was you with a post that was quickly corrected. Talk about overstatement. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-valley-girl-accent/963418/65 "2022-04-26T15:14:26Z")
Totally ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-valley-girl-accent/963418/66 "2022-04-26T15:57:26Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > It was the way the rich kids in LA talked which was not just the San Fernando Valley but also Beverly Hills, Bel Air and the Palisades. That’s what a lot of people don’t get. It was definitely an upper class, preppy affectation. Not all white girls from the Valley spoke like that. I grew up in Orange County, and found Valley speak more prevalent among the preppy girls in Newport Beach than I did among girls from the Valley that I met in Hollywood. The rich girls from the Valley weren’t really that into the Hollywood punk scene circa 1980. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-valley-girl-accent/963418/67 "2022-04-26T15:59:11Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > punk scene circa 1980. It was cool that there was such a lively Punk scene behind the Orange Curtain. 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-valley-girl-accent/963418/68 "2022-04-26T16:03:04Z")
I lived less than a mile from [The Cuckoo’s Nest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo's_Nest_(nightclub)?wprov=sfti1). ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-valley-girl-accent/963418/69 "2022-04-26T16:20:44Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > But does this bode ill for speech and communications education? Not AFAICT, no more than it “boded ill for speech and communications education” when [the early 20th-century “prestige” American speaking style “Mid-Atlantic Accent” was displaced by the “less elite” style of “General American” after WWII.](https://www.babbel.com/en/magazine/announcer-voice) Accepted standards for speaking styles change over time. Your great-grandfather, if he was an American English speaker, probably thought that announcers starting to use “General American” rather than “Mid-Atlantic” accent sounded too “folksy” or like “farm hands” or something. Your grandchildren in decades to come will probably be amused by the fact that Grandpa still thinks that “uptalking” announcers sound “unprofessional” and lacking “clarity and authority”. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-valley-girl-accent/963418/70 "2022-04-27T03:36:15Z")
I got into an internet argument with some dimwit who insisted that all Australians talk that way, based on viewing stupid Australian soaps. It’s a teenager thing, not an Australian thing. Most of us do not talk that way. It’s deliberately affected/exaggerated on those soaps so that the actors “talk like teenagers”. It’s very rare to hear it from an Australian adult and it’s not that common in kids either. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-valley-girl-accent/963418/71 "2022-04-27T03:54:50Z")
[quote=“Elmer\_J.Fudd, post:68, topic:963418”] I lived less than a mile from [The Cuckoo’s Nest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuckoo's_Nest_(nightclub)?wprov=sfti1) [/quote]So, you woulda been deep in the hardcore scene at the birthplace of the Germs, Black Flag, Circle Jerks, the rest of Decline and Fall, no? I was same era but SF and Sacramento area ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-valley-girl-accent/963418/72 "2022-04-27T03:57:15Z")
The upspeak thing. Really? is a pretty common example in standard American. Chinese and Japanese do it too. That said, the upspeak is on the first syllable. Such as “honto ni” in Japanese and 真的 (zhende in Mandarin) ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-valley-girl-accent/963418/73 "2022-04-27T04:47:36Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > So, you woulda been deep in the hardcore scene at the birthplace of the Germs, Black Flag, Circle Jerks, the rest of Decline and Fall, no? X, the Blasters, and Social Distortion were more my scene. Hardcore in OC was usually just an excuse for a brawl and I usually avoided it. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-valley-girl-accent/963418/74 "2022-04-27T13:42:51Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Chinese and Japanese do it too. That said, the upspeak is on the first syllable. Such as “honto ni” in Japanese and 真的 (zhende in Mandarin) I heard Japanese was flat. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/G0ULPlBeKzg/maxresdefault.jpg ""Japanese is flat" /「日本語はフラットです」") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0ULPlBeKzg) ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-valley-girl-accent/963418/75 "2022-04-27T13:58:36Z")
Not flat > **[Japanese pitch accent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_pitch_accent)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > Japanese pitch accent (高低アクセント, kōtei akusento) is a feature of the Japanese language that distinguishes words by accenting particular morae in most Japanese dialects. The nature and location of the accent for a given word may vary between dialects. For instance, the word for "now" is \[iꜜma\] in the Tokyo dialect, with the accent on the first mora (or equivalently, with a downstep in pitch between the first and second morae), but in the Kansai dial... ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-valley-girl-accent/963418/76 "2022-04-27T14:09:30Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Not flat > > [Japanese pitch accent - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_pitch_accent) Sorry, I should have added some emojis; it was a joke (have a look at the video). ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2022, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-valley-girl-accent/963418/78 "2022-04-28T00:51:57Z")
[quote=“Elmer\_J.Fudd, post:73, topic:963418”] X, the Blasters, and Social Distortion were more my scene. Hardcore in OC was usually just an excuse for a brawl and I usually avoided it. [/quote]Gotcha. Tangent. The Blasters played at the UC Davis coffee house around 1981. Those guys were so much fun. College Radio KDVS sponsored it. Blasters were pretty cheap but had riders for the amount of booze. We just had a giant party, played pool, the little dinky venue was stuffed to the gills, fire department came and instead of shutting it down stationed firemen in full gear in all the door ways. You just couldn’t make this shit up, and the Blasters played a great set. I was amazed to hear that Mike Ness of Social Distortion is still alive. Would not have thought that would happen back in say 1983… ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-valley-girl-accent/963418/79 "2022-04-28T18:14:55Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > > > The high rising terminal gives me two impressions: > > > > 1. The speaker is an idiot. > > 2. The speaker is exhibiting insecurity. ‘I am making a statement, but I’m insecure about it and require acknowledgement that I am correct’, or ‘Is it OK that I’m making this statement?’, or ‘I am insecure. Please give me your approval.’ > > I used to think this, too, until I heard linguist John McWhorter explain that it’s more about generously including the listener, than it is about insecurity or uncertainty; > > [Women drive language change.](https://slate.com/podcasts/lexicon-valley/2020/03/vocal-frywomen-language) Gender dynamics come into play in our perceptions of uptalk and vocal fry. The dialect coach Eric Singer, who has an entertaining series of videos about accent on YouTube, points out that when vocal fry is discussed, it’s usually in reference to the voices of women, and especially young women. He points out that men use vocal fry as well, and performs an interesting demonstration, reading a portion of the Gettysburg Address in creaky voice, and then having a female colleague read the same. (Relevant portion is from 5:42 to 6:29) [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/JTslqcXsFd4/maxresdefault.jpg "Accent Expert Breaks Down Language Pet Peeves | WIRED") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTslqcXsFd4) ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2022, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-valley-girl-accent/963418/80 "2022-04-30T13:51:35Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > Most of us do not talk that way. It’s deliberately affected/exaggerated on those soaps so that the actors “talk like teenagers”. It’s very rare to hear it from an Australian adult and it’s not that common in kids either. In a similar vein, native Japanese speakers warn not to learn spoken Japanese by watching anime. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2022, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-valley-girl-accent/963418/81 "2022-04-30T20:30:51Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I work with several people from Canada who do this all the time. My impression is that it’s mostly women to do it, but that’s from a small sample size. I’ve noticed it (uptalk) a lot when I’ve watched Australian movies/TV shows. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-origin-of-the-valley-girl-accent/963418.md?page=3)