# What's the point of asking for a supervisor at a traffic stop? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 6, 2025, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-asking-for-a-supervisor-at-a-traffic-stop/1017941 "2025-05-06T03:10:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-asking-for-a-supervisor-at-a-traffic-stop/1017941/21 "2025-05-06T15:04:07Z")
I imagine that in most cases, by the time it escalates to that point, the person _isn’t_ free to go. Certainly not if they don’t have a valid license or registration. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-asking-for-a-supervisor-at-a-traffic-stop/1017941/22 "2025-05-06T15:06:27Z")
As I understand, you must identify yourself (your name) if there’s a suspicion you are connected to a possible crime that ha been reported. That was a SCOTUS decision. You do not have to produce and documentation, but if you lie to the police and you are materially invoved(?) it is obstruction. And obviously, if you are driving a car or travelling in a coveyance and are the person behind the steering wheel, you are obliged to produce a valid driver’s license and the registration of the automobile. I saw an IG post the other day where the cop pulls over a (black) driver, and starts asking questions. At one point he asks the guy to raise the side window a bit so he can measure the tint. It was 3%. At that point, you know the cop is just digging for a reason to issue a ticket, since he does not actually have one when he pulled the guy over. So police can be “difficult” too. (But if I had to pick one, my money is on the driver being the difficult one) But as the saying goes, you probably can’t talk your way out of a ticket, but you certainly can talk your way into one. Cooperation goes a long way. Also, some of those videos are very badly acted. “Stupid for clicks” seems to be a big business. The most obvious of this was the fellow who posted the video of installing hardwood floors, and knocking the boards into place with a metal hammer. You just know a million people are going to watch and comment “that’s obviously wrong”. The poster laughs all the way to the bank. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-asking-for-a-supervisor-at-a-traffic-stop/1017941/23 "2025-05-06T15:36:25Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I don’t disagree. But it is also my understanding that many (most?) departments have a policy that a supervisor should be brought in 1) if requested, and 2) if a supervisor is available. We had policies that required a supervisor go to many different types of calls automatically (domestics, DWI etc). And a supervisor would go if requested. That doesn’t mean you are always getting a supervisor. There are often times when there is only one supervisor on duty and they might be tied up on another call. With some big departments there may always be a supervisor on duty. But like I said your request for a supervisor isn’t going to bring the proceedings to a grinding halt. The officer on the scene has the authority to continue with their duties on their own. Most officers would be happy to turn over responsibility of a problematic traffic stop to someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-asking-for-a-supervisor-at-a-traffic-stop/1017941/24 "2025-05-06T15:45:10Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > As I understand, you must identify yourself (your name) if there’s a suspicion you are connected to a possible crime that ha been reported. In my state there must be reasonable belief that you have broken or are about to break the law. Someone calling in and saying there’s someone suspicious is not sufficient. If I remember that SCOTUS case correctly, there must be more than just a phone call from a person to raise it to the level of reasonable belief. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-asking-for-a-supervisor-at-a-traffic-stop/1017941/25 "2025-05-06T16:13:47Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > In my state there must be reasonable belief that you have broken or are about to break the law. Someone calling in and saying there’s someone suspicious is not sufficient. If I remember that SCOTUS case correctly, there must be more than just a phone call from a person to raise it to the level of reasonable belief. This is correct: in most states, police must have a reasonable articulable suspicion (RAS) you have committed a crime in order to detain you and demand your ID (or name, address, and DoB verbally). You don’t lose your Fourth Amendment rights _just because_ someone made a phone call; there must be objective indicators that you might be involved in criminal activity. Unfortunately, too many LEOs believe a person can be detained and ID’d simply because someone made a phone call and with no RAS of criminal activity. There are countless videos on YT showing this. But that’s a topic for another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-asking-for-a-supervisor-at-a-traffic-stop/1017941/26 "2025-05-06T16:34:35Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Unfortunately, too many LEOs believe a person can be detained and ID’d simply because someone made a phone call and with no RAS of criminal activity. I’d question that because I see many video where the police say it is their policy to ID to make their report or intentionally sidestep the issue when the person asks, “What is your reasonable articulate suspicion.” by replying “Why won’t you cooperate?” or something similar. That tells me the cop **does** know the law and that the person is not required to ID but they are still trying to intimidate the person into giving up their right to refuse. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-asking-for-a-supervisor-at-a-traffic-stop/1017941/27 "2025-05-06T17:22:12Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > In fairness, I’ve seen many videos of regular citizens doing the same thing. Is there any real point to it? I don’t think I’ve seen one yet where a supervisor shows up and says “OK, you can go.” I ain’t got time to waste on watching wackadoozle SovCits; however, I have seen some videos where a supervisor was called & did confirm that what the individual was doing was legal & that, no, the officer couldn’t do anything about it, including require their ID or name. These were not traffic stops but image-related, where the individual being stopped was in a legal & public place, like on a sidewalk, taking photo/video/drone images of something, whether that was the PD station or another building. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-asking-for-a-supervisor-at-a-traffic-stop/1017941/28 "2025-05-06T19:04:22Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > I ain’t got time to waste on watching wackadoozle SovCits; It’s pretty satisfying to see the looks on their faces when their windows get busted after the 57th warning. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-asking-for-a-supervisor-at-a-traffic-stop/1017941/29 "2025-05-06T19:10:13Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > It’s pretty satisfying to see the looks on their faces when their windows get busted after the 57th warning. - It would be even more satisfying if it came after the second warning and not waste time on the next 55. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-asking-for-a-supervisor-at-a-traffic-stop/1017941/30 "2025-05-06T19:11:01Z")
In the context of this thread, though, traffic stops are almost always based on the officer’s directly observing a driver breaking the law (or claiming to have done so), not on phone calls or other second-hand evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-asking-for-a-supervisor-at-a-traffic-stop/1017941/31 "2025-05-06T20:06:38Z")
As others have said, you have to distinguish between the sovcit whackdoodles, and the cops who are exceeding their authority. (The idiot “journalists” filming in public spaces and hoping for a reaction are a whole nuther category.) I’ll just dismiss all of the sovcits as idiots - tho I’ll observe that even idiots have SOME rights which ought not be violated. WRT everyone else, however, I’m a pretty big opponent of pretext stops/searches, DUI checkpoints, or pretty much any interaction w/ LEOs ABSENT CAUSE. I’m an older white male, and I can only imagine how frustrating AND frightening it would be for someone of color, female, etc. There is no shortage of examples online of LEOs exceeding their authority, being unnecessarily rude and aggressive, and trying to work a pretext stop into something more. I DESPISE such tactics, as well as the judicial approval of LEOs lying to suspects. I wish we lived in the world of Officer Friendly, where LEOs truly existed to serve and protect, but I do not think I am exaggerating when I say that is no longer the case in much/most of the US. Since 9/11 at least, too many police view the average citizen as a potential criminal and a threat. There is plenty of justification for individuals interacting with LEOs to film the encounter, refuse to answer questions other than the minimum required in your state, and to request a supervisor as a witness to any possible misbehavior by the LEO. The ones that bug me the most are when someone is just minding their own business - either parked or sitting somewhere, and a cop comes up and asks them for ID. I don’t care if some neighbor called it in. I know it is vanishing, but I truly value my right to privacy and to be left alone. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-asking-for-a-supervisor-at-a-traffic-stop/1017941/32 "2025-05-07T00:10:35Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > , as well as the judicial approval of LEOs lying to suspects. Much more damaging to freedom is that cops can act however they want as there are almost never penalties for them. They keep their jobs or at worse go work for another office. They are immune from personal lawsuits via qualified immunity and they are never arrested when they commit crimes of abuse. If we want this to end, they need to lose their careers and be open to criminal & civil suits when there is such a clear violation of the law on their part. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-asking-for-a-supervisor-at-a-traffic-stop/1017941/33 "2025-05-07T12:37:46Z")
Specifically: > **[Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiibel_v._Sixth_Judicial_District_Court_of_Nevada)** > > Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177 (2004), is a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court held that a statute requiring suspects to disclose their names during a valid Terry stop does not violate the Fourth Amendment if the statute first requires reasonable suspicion of criminal involvement, and does not violate the Fifth Amendment if there is no allegation that their names could have caused an incrimination. > Under the rubric of Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 ... > The _Hiibel_ decision was narrow in that it applied only to states that have [stop and identify statutes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes). Consequently, individuals in states without such statutes cannot be lawfully arrested solely for refusing to identify themselves during a Terry stop. > **[Terry stop](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_stop)** > > A Terry stop in the United States allows the police to briefly detain a person based on reasonable suspicion of involvement in criminal activity. Reasonable suspicion is a lower standard than probable cause which is needed for arrest. When police stop and search a pedestrian, this is commonly known as a stop and frisk. When police stop an automobile, this is known as a traffic stop. If the police stop a motor vehicle on minor infringements in order to investigate other suspected criminal ac In ... Note that “reasonable suspicion of involvement in criminal activity”. It is apparently a low bar, and it seems often a Terry Stop does not involve any specific crime or suspicion because… police. > On the evening of May 21, 2000, the sheriff’s department in Humboldt County Nevada received a report that a man had assaulted a woman in a red and silver GMC truck on Grass Valley Road. The responding deputy found a truck parked on the side of the road. A man was smoking a cigarette beside the truck, and a young woman was sitting inside it. The deputy observed skid marks in the gravel behind the vehicle, leading him to believe the vehicle had come to a sudden stop. That no doubt rises to the level of reasonable suspicion. It didn’t help that Hiibel became argumentative and uncooperative. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-asking-for-a-supervisor-at-a-traffic-stop/1017941/34 "2025-05-07T12:56:51Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Almost all I see is that they refuse to leave because they believe a building being owned by a government (post office, county building, courthouse) means they can go anywhere they want in that building and not be trespassed. Ahh, good ol’ Poster 7 and ‘’‘First Amendment’‘’ auditors inability to read and comprehend more than one sentence at a time. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-asking-for-a-supervisor-at-a-traffic-stop/1017941/35 "2025-05-07T13:15:23Z")
This is OT, but since you brought it up… If a person is in a public building, they _can_ be trespassed. But unlike a private establishment, they can’t be trespassed for no reason; they must be breaking a law, interfering with services, causing a disturbance, being in a non publicly-accessible area, being there outside normal hours, etc. If, for example, they are in the lobby during normal operating hours, and peacefully & non-intrusively filming, they can’t be lawfully trespassed. They have a right to be there, and they have a right to film. They also have a purpose, even if they are not requesting government services. The purpose is to film, and that is a legitimate purpose that is guaranteed under the First Amendment (freedom of press). ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-asking-for-a-supervisor-at-a-traffic-stop/1017941/36 "2025-05-07T13:21:05Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > The purpose is to film, and that is a legitimate purpose. No, the purpose is to cause a ruckus and monetize on YouTube. Which requires a signed release from all who were filmed. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-asking-for-a-supervisor-at-a-traffic-stop/1017941/37 "2025-05-07T13:25:12Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > for example, they are in the lobby during normal operating hours, and peacefully & non-intrusively filming, they can’t be lawfully trespassed. What if the building (post office, courthouse, &c.) has posted rules against videotaping even n public areas? ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-asking-for-a-supervisor-at-a-traffic-stop/1017941/38 "2025-05-07T13:34:37Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > What if the building (post office, courthouse, &c.) has posted rules against videotaping even n public areas? Then it depends on what authority those rules exist. The receptionist on duty at the time, at one extreme, cannot make up rules even if they are a paid employee. A judge in a courtroom has a lot broader discretion. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-asking-for-a-supervisor-at-a-traffic-stop/1017941/39 "2025-05-07T13:36:06Z")
Let’s assume the Postmaster of that post office and the Chief Judge. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2025, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-asking-for-a-supervisor-at-a-traffic-stop/1017941/40 "2025-05-07T13:53:46Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > What if the building (post office, courthouse, &c.) has posted rules against videotaping even n public areas? Any “rules” a public building has must be also be lawful. What if they had a rule that forbid green hair, or a rule that forbid wearing a necklace with a crucifix? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-asking-for-a-supervisor-at-a-traffic-stop/1017941.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-asking-for-a-supervisor-at-a-traffic-stop/1017941.md?page=3)