# What's the point of being vegetarian? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 8, 2004, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-being-vegetarian/258868 "2004-08-08T06:50:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-being-vegetarian/258868/41 "2004-08-08T21:20:11Z")
> [@](#): > > **Blalron** said: > By eating meat, you are causing more animal suffering than you would if you ate organically grown handpicked food. Perhaps some small bugs may die in the process of of harvesting, but I don’t see how you can call vegetarians hypocrites and still keep a straight face. Judging from this bullshit, I think it’s safe to say you’ve never been on any kind of large scale farm. ‘Some small bugs’? You’re deluding yourself, and so are the vegetarians who believe that crap. They are hypocrites because they refuse to acknowledge the absolute fact that their choices cause animals to suffer - those that die in combines and threshing machines, and those that starve to death because their habitats were mowed down, and those that die on meat farms which supply the vegetable farms with the fertilizer they use every day. Their dollars are _still_ supporting the meat farming industry. > [@](#): > > **yosemite** said: > > It’s not all about you, you know. Nope, it’s all about self-righteous vegetarians who think they’re somehow able to live without being bad, evil animal killers. As for the rest of your post, if you’d like to hurl insults at me, there is a forum for that. > [@](#): > > **Cockatiel** said: > I just think it feels good to not join in with the majority of the population in consuming those innocent animals when we can be just as or even more healthy by following a vegetarian diet. Since those ‘innocent’ animals would either die anyway, or never have existed at all, and since I’ve never seen any actual proof that not eating them makes a person healthier, or even as healthy, I’d much rather not join the high-horse riders. > [@](#): > > **Krokodil** said: > “Being a vegetarian 50% of the time is 50% better than never being one.” Yeah, those vegetarians are just so much damned better than meat eaters. Just ask them, they’ll tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-being-vegetarian/258868/42 "2004-08-08T21:25:02Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > because the “be too hard to give up cheeseburgers” felt shallow and lazy, and because I was worried about mad cow disease. That’s something I worry about too. Maybe I should cut down on the McDonald’s. I don’t even want to know what parts of the cow get put into those patties. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-being-vegetarian/258868/43 "2004-08-08T21:35:27Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Nope, it’s all about self-righteous vegetarians who think they’re somehow able to live without being bad, evil animal killers. Please copy and paste the statement made here by a vegetarian, calling the rest of you “bad, evil animal killers.” If you can’t, that means that **nobody said it**. And while you’re at it, why don’t you prove that we’re _thinking_ it, in the deep recesses of our minds. Can you _prove_ that? Can you _prove_ that those of us who have participated on this thread are seriously thinking that **YOU** are a “bad, evil animal killer”? > [@](#): > > As for the rest of your post, if you’d like to hurl insults at me, there is a forum for that. Oh please. Is it so traumatic for you to discover that some of us are impatient with thin-skinned people who can’t _bear_ to hear that someone else has made a personal choice for their own personal reasons? Give me a break. However, if you really feel that you have been so grievously attacked, take it to the Pit and state your case. Tell me, are the people who make a decision to not use a car as much as you do, or who donate money to charities that don’t donate to—are these people also _judging_ you? It’s a simple point and one that you’ve managed to avoid addressing it so far. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-being-vegetarian/258868/44 "2004-08-08T21:35:43Z")
I’ve been a vegetarian since I was eleven. I have never tried to convince anyone else to become a vegetarian. I choose not to eat meat because I know that I would not be comfortable slaughtering a cow (for example), and so by eating it I was basically in denial about where my food came from. By choosing not to eat meat, I can be feel a lot more comfortable about how the stuff on my plate ended up there. But if it doesn’t bother you that your food was once walking around oinking and mooing, then hey, that’s your business. It does bother me a little bit when people assume all vegetarians are pretentious and judgemental. Even if someone thinks it’s morally wrong to eat meat, that doesn’t necessarily mean they think that people who do it are bad people. I mean, I have lots of friends who don’t agree with me on every issue, but that doesn’t mean I think I’m better than them – I just think they’re wrong on certain issues. That said, vegetarians who _are_ pretentious and judgemental should be called on it, the same as anyone else who acts that way. And I frequently complain when I see some vegetarian being obnoxious about it and making people like me look bad. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-being-vegetarian/258868/45 "2004-08-08T21:40:24Z")
I do wish you’d stop beating this dead horse, **catsix**. And it’s not because I’m a vegetarian. :rolleyes: > [@catsix](#): > > They are hypocrites because they refuse to acknowledge the absolute fact that their choices cause animals to suffer - those that die in combines and threshing machines, and those that starve to death because their habitats were mowed down, and those that die on meat farms which supply the vegetable farms with the fertilizer they use every day. Their dollars are _still_ supporting the meat farming industry. Are they contributing more dollars, or fewer, than if they were buying more meat? Are they contributing to more suffering, or less, than if their money was also directly buying bits of the dead animals. One-word answers if you please. > [@](#): > > Nope, it’s all about self-righteous vegetarians who think they’re somehow able to live without being bad, evil animal killers. Show me a single post here that reflect that attitude. > [@](#): > > Since those ‘innocent’ animals would either die anyway, or never have existed at all, and since I’ve never seen any actual proof that not eating them makes a person healthier, or even as healthy, I’d much rather not join the high-horse riders. You’re not on a high-horse, you’re on a cross. Your insistence that the self-righteous veggies (who have yet to post here or make a peep) has also hijacked this thread. > [@](#): > > Yeah, those vegetarians are just so much damned better than meat eaters. Just ask them, they’ll tell you. Just as they’ve refused to do over and over again in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Cockatiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cockatiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cockatiel)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-being-vegetarian/258868/46 "2004-08-08T22:21:01Z")
**catsix** : They are hypocrites because they refuse to acknowledge the absolute fact that their choices cause animals to suffer - those that die in combines and threshing machines, and those that starve to death because their habitats were mowed down, and those that die on meat farms which supply the vegetable farms with the fertilizer they use every day. I don’t “refuse to acknowledge” that, ok? Let’s get that straight. But has it crossed your mind, maybe, that even if there were less vegetarians in the world, it’s not as if the manufacturing of crops would suddenly come to a dead standstill. Vegetarians are \*not \* the only people who eat vegetables, although (at least for me) it’s a bigger part of their diet than it is for people who eat meat. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-being-vegetarian/258868/47 "2004-08-08T23:02:52Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Yeah, those vegetarians are just so much damned better than meat eaters. Just ask them, they’ll tell you. What do straw men taste of? Cos there’s a lot of them getting made around here, and _I’m_ not clearing them up. > [@Soupbox Monkey](#): > > By not eating meat, you are preventing the suffering of an animal at a future date. Where as in my mind, the animal has already been killed, and there it is on the shelf. I can’t give its life back by refusing to buy it. But by doing so I am ensuring that at the very least, I am doing my part to see to it that the animal’s death was not for nothing and that it will serve some purpose, rather than just getting thrown away after the expiration date. If you were offered stolen goods at a cheap price would you apply the same reasoning? After all, it’s already happened. The goods have already been stolen, and if you don’t buy them they will go to waste. It would be a shame to have them stolen for nothing. Right? If you disapprove of something _on principle_ then you don’t participate in it. It may make little difference this time around, but supporting it in the present perpetuates it in the future. You buy the stolen goods; the thief knows there’s a market for the next theft. And less you get confused; nowhere do I equate meat eating to theft. It’s a comparative example used to illustrate a point. I hate it when people pull the “you’re saying it’s the same as!” diversion. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-being-vegetarian/258868/48 "2004-08-08T23:03:10Z")
> [@](#): > > **yosemite** said: > Can you prove that those of us who have participated on this thread are seriously thinking that YOU are a “bad, evil animal killer”? You missed the post that said I, as a meat eater, contribute to the ‘suffering of innocent animals’ did you? > [@](#): > > Oh please. Is it so traumatic for you to discover that some of us are impatient with thin-skinned people who can’t bear to hear that someone else has made a personal choice for their own personal reasons? Give me a break. Hey kettle? There’s a very anxious pot on the line… > [@](#): > > Tell me, are the people who make a decision to not use a car as much as you do, or who donate money to charities that don’t donate to—are these people also judging you? The ones who bitch about how much my car pollutes and say that I’m just ‘making excuses’ and that I could use public transportation or a bicycle like them and then they wouldn’t have to ‘subsidize my car’ most certainly are being judgmental. > [@](#): > > **tim314** said: > By choosing not to eat meat, I can be feel a lot more comfortable about how the stuff on my plate ended up there. So you’re perfectly OK with the fact that purchasing your tomatoes or avocados means the vegetable farmer bought a bunch of manure from the farm on which they slaughter beef cattle? > [@](#): > > **Marley23** said: > Are they contributing more dollars, or fewer, than if they were buying more meat? Are they contributing to more suffering, or less, than if their money was also directly buying bits of the dead animals. One-word answers if you please. Still trying to prove you’re better than me? > [@](#): > > **Cockatiel** said: > Vegetarians are not the only people who eat vegetables, although (at least for me) it’s a bigger part of their diet than it is for people who eat meat. So in addition to the fact that many of them deny that being vegetarian still results in the death of animals, it’s also a lot easier to ignore it when you’re killing animals you have no intention of ever using for any purpose. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-being-vegetarian/258868/49 "2004-08-08T23:13:45Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > You missed the post that said I, as a meat eater, contribute to the ‘suffering of innocent animals’ did you? I asked you to copy and paste where anyone called you an **EVIL ANIMAL KILLER**. Care to provide the quote? > [@](#): > > Hey kettle? There’s a very anxious pot on the line… What is your point here, exactly? Are you saying that I am upset because other people have made a different choice (to eat animals) and that this somehow upsets me—just the fact that they eat something I do not? That I assume that they are _judging_ me and my behavior, because they choose to eat meat? If that is what you are claiming, please **back it up**. Copy and paste quotes, please. > [@](#): > > The ones who bitch about how much my car pollutes and say that I’m just ‘making excuses’ and that I could use public transportation or a bicycle like them and then they wouldn’t have to ‘subsidize my car’ most certainly are being judgmental. And the ones who just say that they’re using their car less, because they’ve decided it’s something they want to do for the environment? Are they being judgmental of you too? Yes or no? And what about the people who contribute to charities that you don’t contribute to? Are they _judging_ you by mentioning what charities they contribute to, and why? Yes or no? And your response to Marly23: > [@](#): > > Still trying to prove you’re better than me? :rolleyes: It is _always_ about _you_, isn’t it? It just can’t be about someone else making a choice that they feel comfortable with, can it? It’s all about them doing it to show you up somehow. Give me a break. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-being-vegetarian/258868/50 "2004-08-08T23:34:19Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > By choosing not to eat meat, I can be feel a lot more comfortable about how the stuff on my plate ended up there. > [@catsix](#): > > So you’re perfectly OK with the fact that purchasing your tomatoes or avocados means the vegetable farmer bought a bunch of manure from the farm on which they slaughter beef cattle? I actually chose my words very carefully in that sentence. I said “a lot more comfortable”, not “perfectly” comfortable. Obviously, my lifestyle still contributes to the deaths of animals in some ways. I’m more comfortable if those ways don’t include me devouring a big plate of animal flesh three times a day. Ulitmately, we’re all drawing a line somewhere. It’s pretty much impossible to live a life that doesn’t contribute to animal deaths in some way. I might say, I don’t feel comfortable eating animal flesh or wearing leather or fur, but I’m willing to support the slaughter of animals indirectly by, for instance, eating plants that were grown with fertilizer that was purchased from a farm that kills animals. You might say, I feel comfortable eating animals, but I draw the line at forcing them to fight to the death for my entertainment. (I’m guessing you don’t approve of cock fighting, etc. – I could be wrong.) My point is, we both have to make choices about how we do and don’t want to use animals in our lives. The fact that your choices are different from mine doesn’t make either one of us a bad person. I respect your right to make those choices, and hope that you can respect my right to do the same. ---
**Author:** ![Dog80](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@Dog80](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dog80)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-being-vegetarian/258868/51 "2004-08-08T23:38:34Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > By choosing not to eat meat, I can be feel a lot more comfortable about how the stuff on my plate ended up there. May I ask you why you feel uncomfortable about the foods you eat? ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-being-vegetarian/258868/52 "2004-08-08T23:39:30Z")
> [@Futile Gesture](#): > > What do straw men taste of? Cos there’s a lot of them getting made around here, and _I’m_ not clearing them up. > > If you were offered stolen goods at a cheap price would you apply the same reasoning? After all, it’s already happened. The goods have already been stolen, and if you don’t buy them they will go to waste. It would be a shame to have them stolen for nothing. Right? > > If you disapprove of something _on principle_ then you don’t participate in it. It may make little difference this time around, but supporting it in the present perpetuates it in the future. You buy the stolen goods; the thief knows there’s a market for the next theft. > > And less you get confused; nowhere do I equate meat eating to theft. It’s a comparative example used to illustrate a point. I hate it when people pull the “you’re saying it’s the same as!” diversion. Ok, you’re focusing way too much on me disagreeing with the principle. I’m not even sure I know how cattle are slaughtered. I had heard that they are basically ripped open while still alive so that the blood can drain. Cruel, yes, but it makes sense seeing as how massive quantities of blood in food is something that NO ONE would find appetizing. But in the end it’s no more cruel than boiling lobsters alive or gutting fish while they still squirm. It’s simply the way things are done. Would you feel better if you knew that the cows were allowed to run free, and were hunted with bow and arrow, so as not to give the killers an unfair advantage? How about if the cattle were injected with massive doses of painkillers so that they didn’t feel anything while being disemboweled? As for this thread, catsix is taking it exactly where I didn’t mean for it to go and I appologize for his attitude. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-being-vegetarian/258868/53 "2004-08-08T23:45:25Z")
> [@](#): > > **Soapbox Monkey** said: > I’m not even sure I know how cattle are slaughtered. Typically? Single bullet to the head and they’re gutted and drained of blood. ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-being-vegetarian/258868/54 "2004-08-08T23:52:11Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Typically? Single bullet to the head and they’re gutted and drained of blood. They are shot dead first? Now I have no problem with the way its done. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-being-vegetarian/258868/55 "2004-08-09T00:04:48Z")
Well, it’d be dumb to do it any way that isn’t really quick, as animals that are pumping lots of adrenaline tend to taste really bad. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-being-vegetarian/258868/56 "2004-08-09T00:15:43Z")
> [@Dog80](#): > > May I ask you why you feel uncomfortable about the foods you eat? Certainly. There’s two ways I can interpret you’re question. If you’re asking why I would feel uncomfortable about any of the food I eat (for instance if you saw my reply to catsix but not my earlier post), then please see my post earlier in this thread. In short: I know I couldn’t slaughter a cow myself, and in fact if I saw one slaughtered I would be so repulsed there’s no way I could eat it. So in order to eat it I basically must pretend I don’t know what it is or where it came from. It makes me uncomfortable to think that I’m deceiving myself in this way. If you’re asking why I’m uncomfortable with the foods I _still_ eat, i.e. vegetables and such, it’s because I don’t necessarily feel good about how all of those got to me. I prefer to buy so called “organic” foods, but I don’t always stick to this 100%, especially if I’m eating out at a restaurant. So sometimes I’m eating foods that were treated with pesticides that may be harmful to the environment, for example. Also, the most egregious thing is that I’m a lacto-ovo vegetarian, meaning I sometimes eat eggs and dairy products. This makes me a bit uncomfortable because I don’t particularly like the way chickens and cows are sometimes treated on farms. I try to do things like eat eggs from free-range chickens rather than ones that spend their whole lives cooped up, but again I may deviate from this when I’m eating at a restaurant or having dinner at a friend’s house. And, as catsix mentioned, there may be ways in which the products I buy support the meat industry and thus indirectly lead to animal deaths. But even though these things make me a little uncomfortable, at this point I don’t feel bothered enough by them that I’m going to give up going out to dinner with my friends or am going to drastically change my diet or anything like that. I’ve found a level of animal usage that I feel that I can live with and not be too bothered by. ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-being-vegetarian/258868/57 "2004-08-09T00:16:47Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Well, it’d be dumb to do it any way that isn’t really quick, as animals that are pumping lots of adrenaline tend to taste really bad. Well, the explanation I got about them being cut open while still alive made some sense to me because that would mean that the blood would still be flowing on its own and you wouldn’t have to do as much draining later. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-being-vegetarian/258868/58 "2004-08-09T00:22:26Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Typically? Single bullet to the head and they’re gutted and drained of blood. Eh, I thought they knocked them out by electrocuting them or something like that. A shot to the head isn’t always an efficient way of instant death, is it? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-being-vegetarian/258868/59 "2004-08-09T00:29:42Z")
Bullet to the brain is pretty fatal. ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-being-vegetarian/258868/60 "2004-08-09T00:34:17Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Bullet to the brain is pretty fatal. Unless it’s the cow from Me, Myself and Irene. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-being-vegetarian/258868.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-being-vegetarian/258868.md?page=4)