# What's the point of flag-burning and why are some people opposed to it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 5, 2016, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-flag-burning-and-why-are-some-people-opposed-to-it/773903 "2016-12-05T02:50:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-flag-burning-and-why-are-some-people-opposed-to-it/773903/21 "2016-12-05T16:37:17Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The problem with this research is that different people hold different things sacrosanct. For instance conservatives get upset about flag burning or desecration of religious iconography, whereas liberals would get upset about burning a book or desecration of images of liberal heroes. I have a hard time believe many liberals would get upset about burning any book (other than related to censorship) or any images. Burn a photo of President Obama? Stupid, but acceptable political protest. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-flag-burning-and-why-are-some-people-opposed-to-it/773903/22 "2016-12-05T17:09:41Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Most politicians would give their left nut to have their opponents burn flags on tv :dubious: Yes, who can forget the resounding political success scored by President George H. W. Bush when he spoke out against flag-burning in the wake of _Texas_ v. _Johnson_ in 1989? > [@](#): > > President Bush, declaring that “support for the First Amendment need not extend to desecration of the American flag,” called Tuesday [June 1989] for a constitutional amendment to prohibit such protest. > > “Flag burning is wrong. . . . As President, I will uphold our precious right to dissent, but burning the flag goes too far and I want to see that matter remedied,” he said. […] > > And Rep. Robert C. Smith (R-N.H.) called Tuesday for a special Fourth of July congressional session to adopt a constitutional amendment banning desecration of the flag. > > Bush, speaking at a morning news conference, acknowledged that “we’ve got to be very careful in our society” to protect the right of protest. > > “However, I believe that the flag of the United States should never be the object of desecration,” he said. “Protection of the flag, a unique national symbol, will in no way limit the opportunity nor the breadth of protest available in the exercise of free speech rights.” […] > > One White House official portrayed the President’s support for an as-yet-undefined constitutional amendment as one that reflects a deep-seated feeling as well as the political common sense that made his support for the Pledge of Allegiance a powerful campaign issue […] As we all know, of course, the resulting constitutional amendment for flag protection and incarceration of flag-burning protestors generated a surge of popularity among patriotic Americans that swept Bush to re-election in 1992. Oh wait, that’s [not actually what happened](http://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/10/28/Veterans-burn-US-flags-to-protest-law/4286625550400/). > [@](#): > > Vietnam War veterans burned an American flag lowered from a post office and torched 1,000 smaller flags early Saturday [Oct 1989], saying a new anti-desecration law is an attempt to ram patriotism down their throats. […] > > The veterans group, which was among the most active during the anti-war protests of the late '60s and early '70s, challenged authorities to lock them up. > > No uniformed police were in view during most of the demonstration, which included a confrontation by a handful of bald young men who identified themselves as neo-Nazis. > > The ‘skinheads’ jeered the demonstrators and verbal sparring eventually escalated as the two groups threw punches and bottles at each other. > > A dozen police cars finally ended the confrontation at about 1:30 when they entered the area and blocked off the streets, sending the demonstrators home. There were no arrests. > > Meanwhile, the Washington state office of the American Civil Liberties Union blasted the anti-desecration law as unconstitutional. Kathleen Taylor, executive director, blamed Congress and President Bush for the flag-burnings. > > The anti-desecration law, which may not survive a constitutional challenge, ‘has encouraged the very actions Congress and the president wished to discourage,’ she said prior to the demonstration. > > Taylor said the law is contrary to the Constitution and to America’s historical commitment to freedom. > > **‘The U.S. has stood four-square for the freedom to express unpopular opinions. Why should we change now?’** she asked. Emphasis added. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2016, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-flag-burning-and-why-are-some-people-opposed-to-it/773903/23 "2016-12-05T18:50:53Z")
What I’ve always thought was a little odd about the whole debate is that according to the old Flag Codes, burning it is the proper way to dispose of an old flag. In fact, I believe there was an etiquette custom of burning any U.S. flag that touched the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-flag-burning-and-why-are-some-people-opposed-to-it/773903/24 "2016-12-05T21:02:39Z")
Hillary Clinton’s reasons for twice wanting to criminalize US Flag burning with jail terms were summed up by supporter Dianne [**Feinstein**](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/27/AR2006062701056.html) \*The flag’s special symbolic status, she said, makes its desecration different from holding a sign denouncing the president. Burning an American flag in anger, she said, is “conduct, not speech” because the flag is “the symbol of our democracy, our shared values, our commitment to justice, our remembrance to those who have sacrificed to defend these principles.” \* ---
**Author:** ![Frankenstein\_Monster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ccd318/32.png) [@Frankenstein\_Monster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frankenstein_Monster)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2016, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-flag-burning-and-why-are-some-people-opposed-to-it/773903/25 "2016-12-05T21:25:49Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > I’m not sure just what it is about the concept of “the flag being a symbol of the nation” that you’re not understanding. > > There’s an old story that may possibly help you understand. Due to technical issues, I can’t copy this, but here’s a link. The story starts about a third of the way down the page. > > [Echoes from the Pulpit and Platform: Or, Living Truths for Head and Heart ... - Dwight Lyman Moody - Google Books](https://books.google.com/books?id=tKxUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA410&lpg=PA410&dq=condemned+man+wrapped+in+country%27s+flag&source=bl&ots=fI0KkSkSPN&sig=1rd4QAhr4UkeqrhmGjM6UVmDQfg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiRxfLGpdzQAhVKq1QKHWf6D4kQ6AEIMDAH#v=onepage&q=condemned%20man%20wrapped%20in%20country%27s%20flag&f=false) Do you mean [this book](https://archive.org/stream/echoesfrompulpi00mood/echoesfrompulpi00mood_djvu.txt)? This anecdote? > [@](#): > > An English officer once told me the story of a young man > who came to this country from England, became a naturalized > citizen, and afterward went to Cuba, and was there in 1867 > when a war broke out. Finally he was arrested and taken be- > fore the Military Court and condemned to be shot as a spy. > The American consul heard of the case and called on the Eng- > lish consul and laid the story before him, and they found that he > was perfectly innocent. They went to the Spanish command- > ing officer and told him the man was not guilty; but the > Spanish officer said the law must take its course. > > There was no cable to Cuba then, and the consuls could > not quickly communicate with their governments. The morn- > ing came when the man was to be executed. The coffin was > put into a cart, and the condemned man, sitting on his own > coffin, was drawn through the streets of the city. A grave > had been dug, and the coffin was placed beside it. The > doomed man sat on the end of the coffin, the black cap was > drawn over his eyes, and the Spanish officer was ready to give > the order to the soldiers to fire, when the American consul and > the English consul rode up. **The Englishman sprang out of > the carriage and took the British flag and wrapped it around > the condemned man; at the same moment the American threw > the Star Spangled Banner around him, and as he sat there > wrapped in the flags of two great nations the consuls turned > to the Spanish officers and said, " Fire on those flags if you > dare! " They dared not fire on them; there were two powerful > nations behind those flags.** My friends, if you get under the > banner of Heaven, God will say to your enemies, " You put > your hand upon My people and you touch Me; they are the > apple of Mine eye." (my emphasis) ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-flag-burning-and-why-are-some-people-opposed-to-it/773903/26 "2016-12-05T21:29:35Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > It starts with the difference between a “sign” and a “symbol.” These are the definitions I learned in school: A sign points to something or conveys information about something (like a stop sign or a sign on a store that says “open for business”). A symbol points to something and also participates in the identity of the thing it is pointing to (like a crucifix–cross with Jesus’s body on it that Catholics favor-- or a picture of your mother, or a wedding ring, or a flag). > > A flag is not just the sign identifying the nationality of, say, a ship. It also is part of the identity of a nation. It’s not just a sign; it’s a symbol. > > So when people burn a flag, they’re making a statement about the nation, and not a positive statement either. They’re rebelling, protesting, objecting to something that the country or its government is doing. And they’re emphasizing it by a disrespectful act. And by doing so to the American flag, they are proving themselves to be total assholes, ignorant of, and not caring about, the fact that this country acknowledges their right to do so. Try doing that stupid shit in other countries and see how far you get. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-flag-burning-and-why-are-some-people-opposed-to-it/773903/27 "2016-12-05T21:33:17Z")
“flag burning” in this context is basically short-hand for desecrating the flag. If a troop of Boy Scouts are respectfully retiring a worn, old flag (by burning it), it’s a safe bet they’re not the intended targets of Hillary Clinton’s anti-flag-burning crusade. I assume any actual law written would include other related offenses like deliberately stomping on the flag, smearing shit on it, etc., and would be written to include some language about doing so disrespectfully, etc. FWIW, I think burning the flag in protest is incredibly disrespectful, but like using racial slurs or doing other way-over-the-top offensive things, I have no desire to see it criminalized. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-flag-burning-and-why-are-some-people-opposed-to-it/773903/28 "2016-12-05T21:48:40Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > And by doing so to the American flag, they are proving themselves to be total assholes, ignorant of, and not caring about, the fact that this country acknowledges their right to do so. Try doing that stupid shit in other countries and see how far you get. Another example of American Exceptionalism. Personally, burning the flag in protest is not my thing. (Unless it was prohibited, then I’d be first in line at the flag burning extravaganza). ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-flag-burning-and-why-are-some-people-opposed-to-it/773903/29 "2016-12-05T22:57:14Z")
The main thing that helps is if you understand just how sacred the American flag is in America. Our shared history is short. So we’ve put a whole lot of ceremony into the flag. Churches even have big flag celebrations. A lot of what it means to be American is tied up into that flag. And, given encounters I’ve run into, we connect our military with that flag, and the military apparently have the importance of the flag drilled into them even more. And we Americans think very highly of our military, as they are those who fought for our freedom. And that freedom is our national identity–again, due to a lack of history. I actually wound up calling a vet un-American because he wanted to stop all the protests where people take a knee during the national anthem. That should tell you the ceremony and importance we put to the flag and the ceremony behind it. So, given all that importance, burning it has a lot of meaning. We make it important, so burning it–denying that importance–is a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2016, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-flag-burning-and-why-are-some-people-opposed-to-it/773903/30 "2016-12-05T22:58:54Z")
If you burnt a German standard in Germany, people would shrug; if you burnt a Union Flag in Britain no-one would notice. Except just maybe for the Daily Mail, if it was the Daily Mail’s time of the month. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2016, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-flag-burning-and-why-are-some-people-opposed-to-it/773903/31 "2016-12-05T23:24:46Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > If you burnt a German standard in Germany, people would shrug; if you burnt a Union Flag in Britain no-one would notice. Other countries that [don’t legally prohibit desecration of the national flag](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_desecration) include Australia, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Norway, and Romania. I’m not sure why anybody thinks the US would be better off throwing away its constitutional principles to quit that prestigious club. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-flag-burning-and-why-are-some-people-opposed-to-it/773903/32 "2016-12-06T00:09:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > As for why it upsets people… well, there are people who have great respect for the US, and the flag is a symbol of the US. To take **TL’s** analogy of the marriage a bit further, if your spouse threw his/her wedding ring in the garbage, wouldn’t that upset you (assuming you still wanted to stay married)? Fair enough; if I upset anyone by burning the flag, they can jail a photo of me. ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-flag-burning-and-why-are-some-people-opposed-to-it/773903/33 "2016-12-06T00:13:42Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > It starts with the difference between a “sign” and a “symbol.” These are the definitions I learned in school: A sign points to something or conveys information about something (like a stop sign or a sign on a store that says “open for business”). A symbol points to something and also participates in the identity of the thing it is pointing to (like a crucifix–cross with Jesus’s body on it that Catholics favor-- or a picture of your mother, or a wedding ring, or a flag). > > A flag is not just the sign identifying the nationality of, say, a ship. It also is part of the identity of a nation. It’s not just a sign; it’s a symbol. > > So when people burn a flag, they’re making a statement about the nation, and not a positive statement either. They’re rebelling, protesting, objecting to something that the country or its government is doing. And they’re emphasizing it by a disrespectful act. > > Another example. [I’m just making this up.] Let’s say you have a terrible argument with your wife. She pulls off her wedding ring, throws it on the ground and stomps on it. That ring is not just a piece of jewelry; it’s a symbol of your marriage. I’m guessing it would hurt a lot if she did that. > > Back in the 60s when women burned their bras–the bras weren’t just underwear, they were a symbol of women being treated like second class citizens. Burning them was meant to say that. > > Or some young men burned their draft cards during the VietNam war. You can be sure that did not protect them from being drafted, but it was their way of protesting the war. > > Destroying symbols or treating them with disrespect is meant to make a statement about how the person feels about the thing that the object is a symbol **of**. > > Hope that helps. I did that with my ex husband when we had a huge fight I would take on my ring and throw at him to let him what I thought of your marriage and of him! ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-flag-burning-and-why-are-some-people-opposed-to-it/773903/34 "2016-12-06T01:13:22Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > I’m thinking this whole flag thing is a US tempest in a teapot. > > I’ve never heard of anyone burning the Canadian flag in protest of anything. > > And if they did, it wouldn’t even make the news. No one cares. It’s a fucking flag. Get over it. The whole flag-burning thing is a distraction tactic and has been for decades. Nowadays, it seems to mostly be done by people who want to make a video that goes viral on You Tube. :rolleyes: Meanwhile, we have plenty of REAL problems, like our president-elect, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-flag-burning-and-why-are-some-people-opposed-to-it/773903/35 "2016-12-06T01:23:18Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The problem with this research is that different people hold different things sacrosanct. For instance conservatives get upset about flag burning or desecration of religious iconography, whereas liberals would get upset about burning a book or desecration of images of liberal heroes. Thus when the original study was done they only asked about things conservatives hold sacred and miss that liberals use sanctity as well. Haidt, the original researcher now tells a much more nuanced version of how moral foundations are made. Define “upset”. Who are the highly-placed liberals who want to revoke the citizenship of people who burn pics of MLK? ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-flag-burning-and-why-are-some-people-opposed-to-it/773903/36 "2016-12-06T01:36:03Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Say you hear folks chanting _“Hell, NO, We Won’t GO! Hell, NO, We Won’t GO!”_ > > Do you stand around, utterly mystified, wondering just who exactly constitutes that ‘we’ and where the heck it is that such people refuse to go to? > > Say a guy with a megaphone starts leading that crowd in some call-and-response: _“What do we want?” “JUSTICE!” “When do we want it?” “NOW!”_ Do you turn to me to complain that it doesn’t begin to send a coherent message? I mean, you don’t know whether they want a cop prosecuted for shooting an unarmed man, or whether they want a prisoner released, or whether they want something else entirely; you only know they’re in favor of “justice” – and who _isn’t,_ amirite? > > (I heard people chanting “Lock Her Up” at Trump rallies; would that have prompted you to reply, _“I say, good fellow; to whom does ‘her’ refer? The sentence itself lacks the relevant details; kindly supply a spot of useful information, eh, wot?”_) Thank you for at least trying to answer the question instead of answering the question that most people assumed was being asked. So what I’m understanding from you saying this is that there is no actual point to burning the flag besides calling attention to yourself, and demonstrating your contempt for the nation that it represents. There’s no underlying motive besides a desire to express a very harsh opinion. They are willing to go to extreme depths to show their displeasure, and want to make sure that they are understood by those who view the protest as having the utmost contempt for the subject of the symbol. Of course, that doesn’t explain to me why they would want to show such contempt while still inside the country. It seems to me like they are provoking their own misery intentionally. I fully understand why people don’t like the idea of desecrating a symbol, but I thought there was something more going on here because it quite frankly still makes absolutely no sense to intentionally provoke people like that unless you want to be hated. Which makes sense if you’re an actual enemy of the subject of the flag, but not so much when you’re a citizen unhappy with your current (or future) government. Surely there would be better things to burn that are representative of the target of your ire than a symbol that encompasses a nation you belong to and whose course you are trying through your actions to correct. Yes, I would find fault with any gathering of people calling attention to themselves in some way that was not particularly open about what it was they wanted such that they desired the attention. I wouldn’t generally complain, I’d just walk past without having any clue what it is they wanted, the opposite of what I would think they were intending by making the demonstration. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-flag-burning-and-why-are-some-people-opposed-to-it/773903/37 "2016-12-06T02:08:49Z")
_An Iowa man was arrested Thursday and was charged with desecrating the U.S. flag after hanging it upside down beneath a Chinese flag in protest at his home._ \*The Fort Dodge Messenger reported that Homer Martz, an Army veteran, of Somers, put up the flag to protest an oil pipeline being built without his consent next to a well that supplies water to his home. \* _Martz said he didn’t know he was breaking the law. According to Iowa code 718A, Martz was charged with a misdemeanor because he tried to "publicly mutilate, deface, defile or defy, trample upon, cast contempt upon, satirize, deride or burlesque, either by words or act, such flag, standard, color, ensign, shield, or other insignia of the United States, or flag, ensign, great seal, or other insignia of this state.”_ [Foxnews](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/08/15/army-veteran-arrested-for-hanging-us-flag-upside-down-in-protest.html) Aug 2016 Sounds like the same moral panic of Wilson’s time, a hundred years ago. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-flag-burning-and-why-are-some-people-opposed-to-it/773903/38 "2016-12-06T02:19:38Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > Thank you for at least trying to answer the question instead of answering the question that most people assumed was being asked. So what I’m understanding from you saying this is that there is no actual point to burning the flag besides calling attention to yourself, and demonstrating your contempt for the nation that it represents. Uh . . . no? See, when people chant that what they want is JUSTICE – and that when they want it, is now – they can have an actual and specific point even though they’re using incredibly general language to do it. Sometimes they use it to mean “let this or that prisoner go free”; sometimes they mean “jail this or that killer”. You can use it to mean any one of a number of things; but the point is, _one can be meant_. (Likewise, when Trump supporters chant LOCK HER UP, they have a particular individual in mind; even though folks can’t literally get that from the chant _itself,_ somehow they manage to figure out that Hillary Clinton is being referenced. Yes, even though rather a lot of women get referred to as “her”. It’s like magic!) And so, the flag: if someone wants to protest a particular action of the government, they can do so by burning a flag; they can also do so by chanting about “justice”. Granted, either of those is general rather than specific – but either of 'em can still be pressed into service of a specific point. _“Hell, no; we won’t go.”_ Won’t go where? Won’t go to the ice-cream parlor? Won’t go to a movie theater? Of course, when people chanted that we knew damn well what they meant; we couldn’t tell from the _words,_ the words are hopelessly general, but that doesn’t matter; they had a specific point, which they conveyed with a general expression. One can do likewise by burning a flag. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-flag-burning-and-why-are-some-people-opposed-to-it/773903/39 "2016-12-06T16:42:15Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > Define “upset”. Who are the highly-placed liberals who want to revoke the citizenship of people who burn pics of MLK? Not everyone who gets upset wants to revoke citizenship but people do get upset. For instance when an art student in Chicago painted a picture of the late Mayor Washington dressed in women’s undies several Democratic alderman went to the exhibit with policemen and had it confiscated. When a naked statue of Hillary was unveiled in NYC during the campaign it only lasted three hours before an enraged women destroyed it. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2016, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-flag-burning-and-why-are-some-people-opposed-to-it/773903/40 "2016-12-06T18:14:16Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The main thing that helps is if you understand just how sacred the American flag is in America. Our shared history is short. So we’ve put a whole lot of ceremony into the flag. Churches even have big flag celebrations. A lot of what it means to be American is tied up into that flag. And yet, you routinely make “babes in flag thongs stuck up their asscrack” calendars, and wear flag-based paraphernalia which other countries leave for the tourists or for big sports matches. Different countries have different ideas about what “respect the flag” means. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-flag-burning-and-why-are-some-people-opposed-to-it/773903.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-flag-burning-and-why-are-some-people-opposed-to-it/773903.md?page=3)