# What's the point of political correctness? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 3, 2020, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-political-correctness/919689 "2020-09-03T08:23:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-political-correctness/919689/101 "2020-09-04T19:57:50Z")
So keep using whatever language you want. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-political-correctness/919689/102 "2020-09-04T21:26:21Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I think if you were in a conversation with me about kinky hair, I would be OK with any descriptor besides those that are used as insults. Like “nappy”. That term is loaded and I try to avoid it unless I know the person I’m talking too very well (and vice versa). But tightly coiled, wiry, kinky, et al. are all fine. “Afro-textured” would be the term I would use if I were giving a professional lecture about black hair. > > I was listening to NPR one day and they did a segment on black hair salons and natural hair. A black stylist was interviewed and she said something like, “We choose to refer to our natural hair texture as ‘circle hair’ because we have circular follicles.” I raised my eyebrows at that. I have never heard anyone use that terminology before. Google confirmed that it has very low traction. I pictured a bunch of woke white people referring to black hair as “circle hair” after hearing that interview, with all the black people looking at them confused. That’s good to know. Here in the UK a nappy is what we call a diaper, and definitely not a type of hair! I’ve mostly seen it referred to on the internet as ‘black hair’ and ‘natural hair’, which are both way too unspecific for most contexts. Circle hair is a new one, I wonder if it’ll catch on? Political correctness is to some extent an American export, so we get all this stuff second hand. Maybe that contributes to the confusion. I remember a few years ago a couple of British actors got in trouble for saying ‘coloured’ in an interview. I was surprised at the time that they didn’t know it was frowned upon, but it is surprising what people don’t know. Between all the different races, nationalities, disabilities, sexual orientations etc, there’s plenty of ways to get it wrong. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-political-correctness/919689/103 "2020-09-04T21:41:17Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Exactly, non-white, non-male, non-straight, non-able, etc., people spend their entire lives dealing with the uncomfortability of living in a cis-straight-white-able-male society and having to temper our every word and deed taking cis-straight-able-white-men’s comfort in mind. It is a matter of life and death to do so. That the majority cannot tolerate the discomfort of even considering what might be making minorities uncomfortable is ironic. Interesting point. The proverbial cishet-white-males with no disabilities are actually in a decided minority themselves. Being a member of a ‘minority’ certainly doesn’t insulate you from fear of offending someone else, or fear of being judged as a bigot of some kind. That makes it less surprising that the poll I linked to in the other thread showed people of all races believe political correctness is a problem. Perhaps many people would prefer to tolerate some possibly offensive language in order not to have to walk on eggshells themselves? Or maybe they’re hypocrites, who knows. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-political-correctness/919689/104 "2020-09-04T21:51:21Z")
> [@phs3](#): > > The idea Master Password relating to actual slavery is equally implausible. Might as well complain about “niggardly”. Or boycott Master Locks. _Meaning_ matters, not orders of letters. I would have though this was one of those silly examples of political correctness gone wrong, but nope, people are defending it. No cost too high, no benefit too negligible. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-political-correctness/919689/105 "2020-09-04T22:00:31Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I would have though this was one of those silly examples of political correctness gone wrong, but nope, people are defending it. No cost too high, no benefit too negligible. What is the high cost in this case? ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-political-correctness/919689/106 "2020-09-04T22:47:35Z")
A trivial software change like this in a serious product probably costs at least $1K. Then add at least a few seconds of confusion times millions of users. And nobody has yet articulated any real benefit beyond some vague “maybe it makes some oppressed person happier”. I kind of suspect oppressed persons have bigger fish to fry (or is that non-PC because some people are allergic to fish?). At this level, this is a first-world problem of the worst kind. Fix things that matter, of which there are plenty. Don’t squander time, money, and folks’ give-a-\*\*\*\* on things that don’t. That’s pretty basic strategy. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-political-correctness/919689/107 "2020-09-04T22:55:25Z")
That doesn’t sound like a high cost, especially not for a big company. And helping to move “master” and “slave” out of casual, non historical usage in language seems like a reasonable goal to me. YMMV, but just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s wrong to change it. This is a tiny change in the scheme of things - why expend any worry about it? It’s literally no big deal. ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-political-correctness/919689/108 "2020-09-04T23:17:49Z")
It was an illustration. Someone worried about it, spent money on it. Nobody has illustrated a value to the change yet. You keep ignoring points, like folks’ time. That adds up, is worth something. If there’s value, sure; but you have not demonstrated any. Meanwhile, a thousand here, a thousand there…you know the saying. Tell you what, go to your management and tell them you want to spend a thousand dollars making a change that has no discernible positive value and see what they say. Yes, someone rammed this one through–I’m baffled as to how, beyond “It looks good, like we care”. Because there’s no utility to it. And you’re ignoring the strategic value of not making people think that PC = crazy. See previous post. You can ignore that aspect, but you’re losing the battle if you do. It’s pretty basic human nature. Also note that this particular use of “master” didn’t even have a “slave” version associated with it! Which reminds me: am I still allowed to master a skill? It gets silly pretty quickly, and this one is pretty clearly (to me, and others who have mentioned it to me) an example of that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-political-correctness/919689/109 "2020-09-04T23:41:33Z")
Maybe. Seems to me to be a total waste of time to expend any worry about it. Kind of like a gift to those who really see PC as something to worry about, rather than the overblown nonsense that it appears to be. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-political-correctness/919689/110 "2020-09-05T00:10:42Z")
> [@phs3](#): > > And nobody has yet articulated any real benefit beyond some vague “maybe it makes some oppressed person happier”. I kind of suspect oppressed persons have bigger fish to fry (or is that non-PC because some people are allergic to fish?). I’ve found that people doing the big work rarely discourage the little work. People discouraging the little work tend to oppose the big work. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-political-correctness/919689/111 "2020-09-05T00:24:10Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I would have though this was one of those silly examples of political correctness gone wrong, but nope, people are defending it. No cost too high, no benefit too negligible. People are defending the “master password” hypothetical? Who? ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-political-correctness/919689/112 "2020-09-05T00:43:28Z")
Eh? That was…opaque. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-political-correctness/919689/113 "2020-09-05T00:58:52Z")
You’re convinced that people who are oppressed don’t think this is worth doing, given the bigger work that needs doing. Somehow every time I hear that argument raised, it’s by people who aren’t doing the big work, either. ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-political-correctness/919689/114 "2020-09-05T02:05:20Z")
Not exactly what I said, and pretty arrogant. Just because someone isn’t at the forefront of the effort doesn’t mean their thoughts are less valid. My point–as I said pretty clearly–is that this petty, irrelevant stuff devalues the efforts on the big stuff that is worth doing. And that I doubt that the people that this is allegedly being done on behalf of are likely to think the petty stuff is worth doing, when there is bigger stuff that is worth doing. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-political-correctness/919689/115 "2020-09-05T02:27:28Z")
If you let the small stuff ferment and become the big stuff, then the big stuff becomes the catastrophic stuff. ---
**Author:** ![phs3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8491ac/32.png) [@phs3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phs3)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-political-correctness/919689/116 "2020-09-05T03:57:36Z")
Examples? ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-political-correctness/919689/117 "2020-09-05T06:02:51Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > People are defending the “master password” hypothetical? Who? Is this a trick question? You are defending it, iiandyiiii is defending it. Czarcasm too. Also it was an actual, not a hypothetical. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I get that. But you should realize that a lot of minorities are made uncomfortable and unnatural by social pressures… > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It’s okay to be uncomfortable. So, what I’m hearing is that your feelings only matter if you’re a minority. That probably wasn’t what you intended to say. I’m guessing the idea is that if everyone suffers a little discomfort then we can avoid a few people suffering a lot of discomfort, which makes sense. But the second person’s discomfort isn’t nothing, and it doesn’t make you or the concept look good to dismiss it. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I get that. But you should realize that a lot of minorities are made uncomfortable and unnatural by social pressures on them every day, and figure out how to navigate a world full of minor hostilities against them (what would be a good term for these microscopic aggressions? someone come up with one). It still amazes me that someone who talks about microagressions would totally dismiss the impact of being corrected repeatedly and/or feeling like you have to walk on eggshells, and of having bad motives imputed to them if they disagree in any particular: > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’ve found that people doing the big work rarely discourage the little work. People discouraging the little work tend to oppose the big work. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-political-correctness/919689/118 "2020-09-05T06:45:57Z")
Here, iiandyiiii, is another problem with political correctness. This is not really my problem, but one I have heard conservatives complain about. It’s that progressives seem to have tender care for the feelings of minorities, for example those potentially upset by seeing the word ‘master’ used for a password, but if anyone complains these changes are making their lives more difficult, that they are confused by them, feel anxious and insecure, or just don’t see the benefit, they get told to buck up and stop whining, or threatened with being called racist. Sure, you might not change anything for them, but why the total lack of sympathy? > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I have asked. So far the examples seem either on the extremes (i.e. not supported by the vast majority of progressives and social justice advocates) or totally trivial in nature. I’m waiting for something to reasonably cause worry. Maybe it’s just tone, like I suggested. So can you give us some of the examples? Because the most extreme example mentioned so far is still supported by you. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So occasionally you might feel a bit uncertain and awkward. It’s okay. It’s not going to kill you, or even hurt you. Most progressives and social justice advocates will be kind and decent to those who genuinely want to learn and be more thoughtful. It’s okay to ask. And if you’re afraid to ask, then maybe you’re not up to this kind of discussion. I don’t ask, iiandyiiii. I don’t want to look ignorant. And I’m not really worried about being corrected. I’m worried about hurting someone accidentally and about being judged by other people. Ah, here it comes: > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’ll note that this is probably very true for most Trump supporters, and many others. Compared to a Trump supporter. ☹ > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is not even remotely a fraction of 1% of the most minor-league discrimination faced everyday by thousands or millions of black folks, or gay folks, or trans folks, or women, etc. If this is really a significant concern for you, then maybe you’re not up for difficult discussions about the experiences of others in the world. You probably should have left women off that list. 😉 I do believe women suffer discrimination in several ways, but I’m still concerned about this issue. Hell, I think in many ways things have got worse for women over the last 20 years, and progressives have contributed to that. So this isn’t exactly a persuasive argument. And I don’t know what ‘not up for difficult discussions’ is supposed to mean. Even supposing I actually preferred a world without PC, I still have to deal with living in this one. All I can do is do my best and hope to muddle through, like most people. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-political-correctness/919689/119 "2020-09-05T08:02:24Z")
It’s ultimately a form of thought control using social pressure and now threats of physical violence and financial ruin. It’s no different than theological regimes dictating how to pray and punishing lack of piety. Exchange ideological with theological. Exchange politically incorrect with blasphemous. ---
**Author:** ![Terwilliger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Terwilliger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terwilliger)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-political-correctness/919689/120 "2020-09-05T09:19:59Z")
Being polite used to mean, among other things, not discussing religion and politics in mixed company. We don’t do that anymore. Good PC: Lets not call descendants of African slaves niggers anymore. And maybe we should try to rectify the socio\_economic effects of 400 years of racism. Bad PC: [https://reason.com/2020/09/03/usc-communications-professor-on-a-short-term-break-for-giving-chinese-word-neige-as-example/](https://reason.com/2020/09/03/usc-communications-professor-on-a-short-term-break-for-giving-chinese-word-neige-as-example/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-political-correctness/919689.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-political-correctness/919689.md?page=7)