# What's the point of prayer? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 23, 2007, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-prayer/412797 "2007-07-23T01:59:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-prayer/412797/21 "2007-07-23T05:58:17Z")
The best explaination for prayer I’d ever seen was something I’d read by C.S. Lewis to the effect of: Prayer doesn’t change God. Prayer changes me. ---
**Author:** ![TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/51bf81/32.png) [@TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-prayer/412797/22 "2007-07-23T06:15:07Z")
Prayer is a form of worship. ---
**Author:** ![DevNull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c89c15/32.png) [@DevNull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DevNull)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-prayer/412797/23 "2007-07-23T06:35:14Z")
[QUOTE=VCO3] Prayer is a form of worship. [/QUOTE] Worship, by definition, includes love and/or devotion. I posit that a fair bulk of prayer is of a desperate nature or opportunistic choice, thus rendering my judgment of your “is a form of worship” to a downgraded “can be a form of worship”. ---
**Author:** ![Full\_Metal\_Lotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/df705f/32.png) [@Full\_Metal\_Lotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Full_Metal_Lotus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-prayer/412797/24 "2007-07-23T06:48:42Z")
So. If I “tell” God what I want and God does it, then its God acting. If I pray for something that is “not in God’s plan” and it doesn’t happen it proof of God’s omniscienct wisdom… I pray that this prayer for the proof of prayer will not be answred! Grin FML ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-prayer/412797/25 "2007-07-23T09:01:07Z")
1 : A means of showing off how pious you are. Which is why many people like to make a show of it; the show is the point, for them. 2 : A means of conning people into being more loyal to the religion. You pray; if you get what you prayed for God likes you ! Send money ! If what you prayed for doesn’t happen, that’s proof of how sinful and vile you are and how you need to devote yourself more fervently to the One True Religion. Oh, and send money. 3 : An example of faulty reasoning. As pointed out, God as typically portrayed already knows what you need and if you deserve it, so nothing you pray will change his opinion. 4 : A means of inducing passivity. The more people pray, the less likely they will do anything that might make a difference. That makes the powerful happy; a praying populace is less likely to resist them. It’ll pray instead. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-prayer/412797/26 "2007-07-23T09:55:14Z")
Bang on **Der Trihs** ---
**Author:** ![I\_m\_Ron\_Burgundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9fc29f/32.png) [@I\_m\_Ron\_Burgundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_m_Ron_Burgundy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-prayer/412797/27 "2007-07-23T09:59:59Z")
1 - for the strength to change the things they can 2 - for the humility to accept the things they cant 3 - for the wisdom to tell the difference sorry sorry I had to ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-prayer/412797/28 "2007-07-23T13:29:49Z")
I won’t try to disagree with anything that anyone has said so far, but taking the parent/child analogy and running with it for a while… Sometimes I know exactly what my kids want, even without them saying so. Furthermore, often in these cases, _they know_ that I know exactly what they want, and they know I don’t mind giving it to them. But I still want them to ask me for it, it’s not that I’m not being capricious or mean and withholding it until they ask - indeed I’d probably give it to them anyway - it’s just that the act of them asking for it, and me providing it are somehow part of the social and familial contract that exists by virtue of my role as parent and their role as kids, and that binds us together as a family. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-prayer/412797/29 "2007-07-23T16:03:52Z")
Prayer is an essential component of the Christian life. It connects us to the higher levels of being and reminds us not to obsess over vain, earthly things. It calms us during emotional storms. It helps us maintain things in their proper perspective. I recommend reading [The Way of Perfection](http://www.amazon.com/Way-Perfection-Christian-Classic/dp/1557252483/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-0100027-7843036?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185206415&sr=1-1) by Saint Teresa of Avila for a deeper understanding of Christian prayer. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-prayer/412797/30 "2007-07-23T16:16:21Z")
Asking God to grant a favor is pretty petty-no harm in asking, but be aware that you most likely won’t get your wish. Of course-the old saying applies : “be careful what you wish for, in case your wishes come true!”. God is NOT santa Claus-much better to trust in the Almlmighty and trust that all will be well. read Kipling’s “THE MONKEY’S PAW”. for a terrifying reminder of why it’s not good to ask for certain things. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-prayer/412797/31 "2007-07-23T16:58:57Z")
The short answer is we do it to glorify God, to advance His Kingdom. It is a tool God has provided to the faithful to accomplish His divine plan. Yes God could do His plan on his own, but, for whatever reason He wants us actively involved. Praying is not for us but for Him, though we can strengthen our faith in Him through prayer. As for things like healings and the like, where we appear to be asking for favors, that is not what is happening, we are asking to flow His Spirit through us to others, sometimes this will help strengthen the person being healed, or bystanders, and they will be more open to turning their life over to Jesus to even further God’s plan. Asking for guidance or wisdom is also a reason, it is a method God has made for us to receive it. Asking for wisdom is not a violation of free will, it is part of it. We have to make the free will decision to ask, we have to make the free will decision to follow it. If you go into a resteraunt and you ask the water what does he recomend does not mean that you no longer have any choice. I don’t think sharing your thoughts is usually done in itself, but normally in respect to another aspect of prayer. AFAIK People normally don’t pray, ‘God, I really like the color brown, just want to let you know’. It’s more included in praise ‘God thank you for the color blue, I really like that one’, or a request for wisdom ‘God you placed in me a strong liking for the color blue, is there any reason you did this wonderful thing for me, How am I suppose to use this to advance yoru kingdom on earth?’ To show proper respect for God is part of it, but being able to pray to my God is a very high honor. To me being in submission to God is the highest ‘level’ a person in earth can obtain. ---
**Author:** ![recessiveMeme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@recessiveMeme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/recessiveMeme)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-prayer/412797/32 "2007-07-23T19:38:15Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] God is NOT santa Claus-much better to trust in the Almlmighty and trust that all will be well. read Kipling’s **“THE MONKEY’S PAW”**. for a terrifying reminder of why it’s not good to ask for certain things. [/quote] I know this isn’t exactly on-topic, but I’ll just offer that if God made a point of satisfying shallow prayers/requests through sadistic, byzantine, and altogether horrible twists of fate designed to punish his adherents for having the gall to ask in the first place… I’d think a lot more highly of Him. I’m imagining someone enjoying a miraculous recovery from terminal cancer only to be killed when the hospital burns down as they wait to check-out. [QUOTE=_Monkey’s Paw_ God] Hey, you just prayed to survive the cancer-- you didn’t say anything about a hospital fire. Sorry! :rolleyes: [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-prayer/412797/33 "2007-07-23T19:46:00Z")
[QUOTE=OtakuLoki] The best explaination for prayer I’d ever seen was something I’d read by C.S. Lewis to the effect of: Prayer doesn’t change God. Prayer changes me. [/QUOTE] But, I’m pretty sure Lewis believed that God does respond to prayer. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-prayer/412797/34 "2007-07-23T19:56:54Z")
[QUOTE=Gorgonzola] It’s a form of meditation, which is helpful for a number of reasons: relaxation, routine, self-care, solution generation, and reflection. Meditation is also fairly useful in anger management. Prayer has the added plus beyond the benefits of meditation in that you may be pleasing an all-powerful entity – always good as a freebie. [/QUOTE] Yep, that about sums it up. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-prayer/412797/35 "2007-07-23T20:07:41Z")
[QUOTE=Thudlow Boink] But, I’m pretty sure Lewis believed that God does respond to prayer. [/QUOTE] To elaborate on this, and as one response to the OP’s Point #1, here’s how C. S. Lewis explained it in an essay called “Work and Prayer”: > [@](#): > > The case against prayer … is this. The thing you ask for is either good—for you and for the world in general—or it is not. If it is, then a good and wise God will do it anyway. If it is not, then He won’t. In neither case can your prayer make any difference. But if this argument is sound, surely it is an argument not only against praying, but against doing anything whatever? > > In every action, just as in prayer, you are trying to bring about a certain result; and this result must be good or bad. Why, then, do we not argue as the opponents of prayer argue, and say that if the intended result is good God will bring it to pass without your interference, and that if it is bad He will prevent it happening whatever you do? Why was your hands? If God intends them to be clean, they’ll come clean without you washing them. … > > We know that we can act and that our actions produce results. Everyone who believes in God must therefore admit (quite apart from the question of prayer) that God has not chosen to write the whole of history with His own hand. … It may be a mystery why He should have allowed us to cause real events at all; but it is no odder that He should allow us to cause them by praying than by any other method. > > Pascal says that God ‘instituted prayer in order to allow his creatures the dignity of causality.’. It would perhaps be truer to say that He invented both prayer and physical action for that purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-prayer/412797/36 "2007-07-23T20:10:10Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] read Kipling’s “THE MONKEY’S PAW”. for a terrifying reminder of why it’s not good to ask for certain things. [/QUOTE] Nitpick: “The Monkey’s Paw” is by W. W. Jacobs. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-prayer/412797/37 "2007-07-23T20:18:27Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] I would say for this one, lack of logic is pretty understandable (and i’m not trying to snark). We’re emotional beings, and we’re just not used to communicating by not doing anything. I’m not religious, but I know how it can make you feel better to talk to someone about your problems. But it’s not enough for us to just gain that knowledge; it’s not just in the actual sharing of information that we get comfort, it’s in the conversation itself. A religious person may believe that their deity already knows what they’re thinking, but the actual speaking is a useful emotional help. Anyway, I have another reason to pray for you; because we might be wrong. [/QUOTE] Or, why do people keep journals - you already know what you think. People keep journals because they are a chance to reflect, because they help organize your thoughts. People pray for the same reasons. Also because directed hope is more satisfying for many people than undirected hope. Do you hope? Prayer, in many cases, is just directed hope. People obviously pray for many different reasons. But the difference between meditation and/ or hope and prayer is a pretty fine line from where I sit. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-prayer/412797/38 "2007-07-23T21:43:31Z")
[QUOTE=NobodyNumberSeven] Let’s try to avoid all debates about whether or not there is a God, and assume for purposes of this question that there is. Now, what exactly is the point of prayer? What rational reason could anyone have for doing it? [/QUOTE] Some prayers are simply worship, of course. In general a supplicant’s prayer for favor serves as a balm for the anxiety which is brought about by not being in control of the workings of the universe. In neither case is the reason rational even if the person praying assumes there is a God. Every successful religion has formulated some sort of fine print for why their particular construct does not guarantee a Genie in Your Pocket who shows up when the house is on fire. Deference to a greater Good and a wiser Will is a reasonable summary of the fine print for most Christian prayer requests… ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-prayer/412797/39 "2007-07-23T22:57:46Z")
It’s to put the person praying in a position of weakness relative to the God. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is a matter of opinion; many people seem to like being set in a child-parent relationship with their diety. (It feeds the notion that God loves you personally, despite the general total dearth of real-world evidence for the fact.) Personally I like the notion that all the dieties (christian god, vishna, ra, thor, etc) are in a big competition, and the one that garners the most followers wins the pot. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-prayer/412797/40 "2007-07-23T23:43:54Z")
[QUOTE=begbert2] It’s to put the person praying in a position of weakness relative to the God. [/quote] You got to be kidding me? A person who believes in God knows that God is higher then man, praying does not put that person in a position of weakness, that person is already there along with every other human. If anything it puts that person in a position of power over wicked spiritual forces. > [@](#): > > Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is a matter of opinion; many people seem to like being set in a child-parent relationship with their diety. (It feeds the notion that God loves you personally, despite the general total dearth of real-world evidence for the fact.) The child-parent relationship is pretty good. But it’s more then that, it is the acknowledgment that a person really should have a God as a person is not designed to be their own god. > [@Hebrews 8:10 NIV](#): > > This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. > [@Revelation 21:3 NIV](#): > > And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. So yes there is a desire to be ‘owned’ by God, for that makes us children of God, which is a hell of a lot better then owned by this world (pun intended). > [@](#): > > Personally I like the notion that all the dieties (christian god, vishna, ra, thor, etc) are in a big competition, and the one that garners the most followers wins the pot. I don’t know about winning the pot, but personally I do believe that there is a real competition between the forces of God and the spiritual forces of wickedness which has some of it’s forms of other gods. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-prayer/412797.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-prayer/412797.md?page=3)