# What's the point of regional chains? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 2, 2011, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-regional-chains/594921 "2011-09-02T03:49:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-regional-chains/594921/61 "2011-09-04T00:47:35Z")
> [@randomface](#): > > This reminds me, next place I move to better have a Dunkin Donuts. I went to one in NH and the blueberry muffins and coffee were far superior to the only other coffee chain around here, Starbucks. If I remember correctly they were more reasonably priced too. Tim Hortons is waaay better, but isn’t real common in the US. Culturally, it occupies about the place in Canada that MickeyDs does here in the States. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-regional-chains/594921/62 "2011-09-04T00:51:18Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Bazils? Dinosaur (which was asked already, I realize)? Sticky Lips? Actually I’ve never eaten at Bazil or Sticky Lips (although I use to eat at the seafood restaurant that was in Bazil’s current location). If I was looking for a great Italian restaurant in the region, I’d pick Fratelli’s in Avon. For barbecue, I’d go with the Dinosaur (although I also like Taste of Texas in Spencerport, which is more casual and closer to home) But the bottom line is nobody associates western NY with great barbecue. If you’re a Vegas casino owner, you’re not going to be trying to push NY barbecue. That’s why my guess would have been the Anchor Bar. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-regional-chains/594921/63 "2011-09-04T00:53:21Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > If only we had a good bagel shop; the few we used to have are all gone now. I like Bruegger’s. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-regional-chains/594921/64 "2011-09-04T02:50:49Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I like Bruegger’s. I’ll have to check them out sometime when I’m on my way to Red Rocks in the morning or something; I live in Henderson near the lake, so that’s a bit out of my way. I used to go to Bagels n More on East trop, but they’ve been gone for awhile now. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-regional-chains/594921/65 "2011-09-04T04:09:51Z")
> [@Huerta88](#): > > Agreed with those who have pointed out that no one sets out to start a non-regional chain, and few set out to start a chain at all. Most businesses begin as small local one-off shops, some of which succeed enough to justify a second, then a third, then . . . naturally, it’s more likely that the second will be in the same city as the first as opposed to the opposite coast. Right. If you harbor no grand ambitions of empire(\*), you can have a smashingly succesful chain/branch business without ever leaving California or Texas or the NE corridor just on the weight of clusters of millions of potential customers within a day’s roundtrip by car or train. People sometimes forget, not only is the US quite heterogeneous in composition, but its large population is also NOT homogenoeusly distributed (hence the phrase “flyover country”), _and_ the nation’s just physically very very big. (\*) Best put in this earlier quote: > [@Ascenray](#): > > Some business owners prefer to stick to what they know, what they know they can make work, and what gives them the kind of professional and private lifestyle that they like. BTW, another way to end up with a fast-growing nationwide chain: one chain just buys up _other existing regional chains or local stand-alones_ who may be in a weaker condition, and folds them in and rebrands them (this is what happened in the Department Store segment). ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-regional-chains/594921/66 "2011-09-04T04:34:47Z")
Actually, BrotherCadfael, Tim Hortons is moderately common in the U.S., particularly in certain regions. There are 587 of them in the U.S. Of course, compared to the 3,040 of them in Canada, this isn’t that much, but it’s still a moderately large chain: > **[Tim Hortons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Hortons)** > > Tim Hortons Inc., commonly nicknamed Tim's, Timmie Horton’s or Timmie's, is a Canadian multinational coffeehouse and restaurant chain. Based in Toronto, Tim Hortons serves coffee, doughnuts, sandwiches, and other fast-food items. It is Canada's largest quick-service restaurant chain, with 5,352 restaurants in 15 countries, as of June 30, 2022. > The company was founded in 1964 in Hamilton, Ontario by Canadian hockey player Tim Horton (1930–1974) and Jim Charade (1934–2009), after an initial ven... (Those numbers are as of mid-2010.) ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-regional-chains/594921/67 "2011-09-04T04:48:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Actually I’ve never eaten at Bazil or Sticky Lips (although I use to eat at the seafood restaurant that was in Bazil’s current location). If I was looking for a great Italian restaurant in the region, I’d pick Fratelli’s in Avon. For barbecue, I’d go with the Dinosaur (although I also like Taste of Texas in Spencerport, which is more casual and closer to home) I’ve never understood the Sticky Lips love when Dinosaur is so clearly superior. But Bazil’s is pretty good if you’re in the mood for some traditional Italian. They make all their own sauces and I’m a big fan of the vodka sauce, especially over gnocchi or raviolis. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-regional-chains/594921/68 "2011-09-04T23:04:32Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Actually, BrotherCadfael, Tim Hortons is moderately common in the U.S., particularly in certain regions. There are 587 of them in the U.S. Of course, compared to the 3,040 of them in Canada, this isn’t that much, but it’s still a moderately large chain: > > [Tim Hortons - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Hortons) > > (Those numbers are as of mid-2010.) Tim Hortons is present mainly in the same states that Dunkin Donuts exists. If there’s no Dunkin Donuts around, chances are there’s no Tim Hortons either. So **randomface** , and myself, are stil out of luck. ---
**Author:** ![No\_umlaut\_for\_U](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@No\_umlaut\_for\_U](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/No_umlaut_for_U)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-regional-chains/594921/69 "2011-09-04T23:30:51Z")
Another Chicago-centric example is what happened when Safeway bought Dominick’s (grocery store). Dominick’s was very focussed on its market with its bakery items, regional sausages and coldcuts, and a perceived responsiveness to customer requests. First thing Safeway did was replace all the store brands, and Dominick’s has never really recovered. There has to be an optimization with shipping costs vs. the expense of custom products, regional variation with agricultural supply, and deciding whether a product’s popularity is a fad (Canfield’s Diet Chocolate Soda), perceived quality from short supply (Coors in the midwest in the 60s-70s), and knowing your customer base. The US is not homogenous, and a food company/chain restaurant that thinks it is will have an unpleasant surprise upon expansion. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-regional-chains/594921/70 "2011-09-04T23:45:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But the bottom line is nobody associates western NY with great barbecue. If you’re a Vegas casino owner, you’re not going to be trying to push NY barbecue. That’s why my guess would have been the Anchor Bar. Not exactly Western Buffalo but someone’s tried to con me about Upstate New York having great barbecue. Brought me back a bottle of sauce from Brooks House of Barbecue in Oneonta. Raved about it. Predictably, it was the same awful corn syrupy ketchup-bland sauce you get everywhere undiscerning white people think they know how to make barbecue. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-regional-chains/594921/71 "2011-09-04T23:50:32Z")
They tried to open a Las Vegas branch of [RUB BBQ](http://www.rubbbq.net/) at Rio a few years ago. It tanked, of course. People out here know BBQ, and RUB ain’t it. It was like an old [Pace](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgrGyR6EYbY) ad. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-regional-chains/594921/72 "2011-09-05T00:21:04Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > They tried to open a Las Vegas branch of [RUB BBQ](http://www.rubbbq.net/) at Rio a few years ago. It tanked, of course. People out here know BBQ, and RUB ain’t it. It was like an old [Pace](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgrGyR6EYbY) ad. Would the failure of a chain restaurant in a Vegas hotel be due to the lack of local patronage versus tourist? How much of a hotel restaurant’s business in Vegas is local (I’m not challenging you, just don’t know). I ask too because I visited RUB and while the standard of barbecue in New York City is probably not world class, it seems to have improved greatly in the last decade, and I did not think RUB was awful or even bad/mediocre, and my baseline is fairly hardcore. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-regional-chains/594921/73 "2011-09-05T00:37:07Z")
At the Rio, probably 50/50. It’s off-Strip, but not by much. The times we tried the one in Vegas, the meat was pretty much inedible. The sides were good, but BBQ is meat, and RUB Vegas sucked mightily at meat. I could get better ribs at McDonalds. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-regional-chains/594921/74 "2011-09-05T00:40:15Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > At the Rio, probably 50/50. It’s off-Strip, but not by much. The times we tried the one in Vegas, the meat was pretty much inedible. The sides were good, but BBQ is meat, and RUB Vegas sucked mightily at meat. I could get better ribs at McDonalds. Wow. The meat in N.Y. was fine. This could be a franchisee-control issue (oh, another reason for chains not to expand too quickly or indiscriminately – one crappy uncontrolled franchise can ruin it for the whole chain’s reputation). I say this because the worst steak dinner I’ve had at a serious steak restaurant was at the Palm in Caesar’s in Vegas. And the Palm in New York is pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-regional-chains/594921/75 "2011-09-05T01:41:26Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Maybe Bill Gray’s or Tom Wahl’s. Dammit, which place had a rib eye sandwich - a classic =/- third of an inch thick slab of rib eye on a roll? Webster/Sea Breeze-ish, early to mid 80s? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-regional-chains/594921/76 "2011-09-05T05:16:28Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Dammit, which place had a rib eye sandwich - a classic =/- third of an inch thick slab of rib eye on a roll? Webster/Sea Breeze-ish, early to mid 80s? That would be Don’s Original or Vic and Irv’s. Neither one has moved from their Seabreeze locations in over 30 years. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-regional-chains/594921/77 "2011-09-05T13:28:41Z")
Regarding New England: the NE seems to be a tough environment to do bsiness in. We used to have Hardees, Jack In The Box, Rax, Arthur Treachers, etc.-all of them have vanished. And KK lasted a bit over two years here. No shortage of ratburger/fast food places, but some of these chans never had a chance. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Vorlon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@The\_Vorlon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Vorlon)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-regional-chains/594921/78 "2011-09-05T13:52:27Z")
Dunkin Donuts is a pale ghost of what it once was. Because there is one every 25’ or so, if it is not coffee, it was made elsewhere, days ago, and it shows. There is one location south of Boston, in Weymouth, that still does ALL their cooking on site. Everything is fresh and tastes nothing like the other locations in the area. They have (and _need_) a triple bay drive thru. Don’t get me started on DD coffee—I’ll be kind and say there is a storm drain involved. Alas, all our Tim Hortens up and closed last year. Now that was a good cup of coffee. I have a friend who smuggles me a kilo of Canadian Fine Grind every time she visits her sister. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-regional-chains/594921/79 "2011-09-05T17:31:43Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > That would be Don’s Original or Vic and Irv’s. Neither one has moved from their Seabreeze locations in over 30 years. Vic and Irvs, thanks =) ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-regional-chains/594921/80 "2011-09-05T17:50:04Z")
> [@randomface](#): > > This reminds me, next place I move to better have a Dunkin Donuts. I went to one in NH and the blueberry muffins and coffee were far superior to the only other coffee chain around here, Starbucks. If I remember correctly they were more reasonably priced too. In that case, stay away from San Antonio, TX. It’s the 7th largest US city (population), but it has just _2_ Dunkin Donuts! And one of those is in the airport. Where I last lived in Maryland, there were two within a mile of each other on the road I drove to church. Ah, good times… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-regional-chains/594921.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-regional-chains/594921.md?page=5)