# What's the point of the dropped third strike and third strike/4thb umpire mask rule?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-dropped-third-strike-and-third-strike-4thb-umpire-mask-rule/217966
**Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports
**Created:** [December 9, 2003, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-dropped-third-strike-and-third-strike-4thb-umpire-mask-rule/217966 "2003-12-09T17:56:24Z")
**Posts on this page:** 14
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2003, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-dropped-third-strike-and-third-strike-4thb-umpire-mask-rule/217966/1 "2003-12-09T17:56:24Z")
They seem arbitrarily in favor of the team at bat. What are they point of these two rules? Dumb it down because I know very little about baseball.
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### Author:  [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-dropped-third-strike-and-third-strike-4thb-umpire-mask-rule/217966/2 "2003-12-09T22:16:52Z")
> [@](#):
>
> They seem arbitrarily in favor of the team at bat.
Not necessarily. Found this.
[http://www.eteamz.com/baseball/rules/obr/library/rule.cfm/Dropped%20Third%20Strike/](http://www.eteamz.com/baseball/rules/obr/library/rule.cfm/Dropped%20Third%20Strike/)
> [@](#):
>
> The batter becomes a runner when the third strike is not caught. Therefore, if there are 2 outs and there is a runner at first, first and second, or bases loaded, the batter creates a force by becoming a runner. These runners are all forced to advance and an out may be obtained by making a play on any one of them. If the bases are loaded the catcher may step on home or throw to third, second or first.
>
> Rule: 6.05(c), 6.09(b) Casebook interpretation
>
> Submitted by: Jim Booth
This would also obtain for the other situation–you’d have another runner and another chance for an out.
Column in question.
[http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1\_299.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_299.html)
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### Author:  [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2003, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-dropped-third-strike-and-third-strike-4thb-umpire-mask-rule/217966/3 "2003-12-09T23:55:08Z")
Still, why the rule at all?
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### Author:  [@SkyCowboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkyCowboy)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2003, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-dropped-third-strike-and-third-strike-4thb-umpire-mask-rule/217966/4 "2003-12-10T00:35:04Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by KidCharlemagne \*
> \*\*Still, why the rule at all? \*\*
Kid,
Because the catcher is making the putout, and if he drops it, he can’t. Similar to the firstbaseman dropping the ball – the out doesn’t happen if the catcher doesn’t hang on to it.
Cordially,
Sky
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### Author:  [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2003, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-dropped-third-strike-and-third-strike-4thb-umpire-mask-rule/217966/5 "2003-12-10T01:20:51Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by SkyCowboy \*
> \*\*Kid,
>
> Because the catcher is making the putout, and if he drops it, he can’t. Similar to the firstbaseman dropping the ball – the out doesn’t happen if the catcher doesn’t hang on to it.
>
> Cordially,
>
> Sky \*\*
Ok, I’ll buy that. The umpire thing still seems odd.
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### Author:  [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2003, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-dropped-third-strike-and-third-strike-4thb-umpire-mask-rule/217966/6 "2003-12-10T21:09:35Z")
(This is a WAG, but it’s from a baseball fan who’s spent some time thinking about this issue.)
The umpire bit probably came up in play before the rule was made. Think about it: You’re playing baseball, the ball gets lodged in the umpire’s mask or other gear. What do you do?
You can’t call it an out, you can’t call it a home run, and you can’t call it “in play” because the catcher would attack the ump trying to get the ball. One base seems like a fair enough solution, since it’s the defensive team’s fault the ball is there in the first place.
That’s my best guess, which will no doubt be corrected shortly.
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### Author:  [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2003, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-dropped-third-strike-and-third-strike-4thb-umpire-mask-rule/217966/7 "2003-12-10T23:01:37Z")
Re: The Force Rule
So why wouldn’t a team that had allowed the bases to be loaded with one out simply drop a third strike on the batter, pick it up, step on home plate and snap throw to third? Two outs, inning over. I can’t believe there’s not something that prevents this…
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### Author:  [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2003, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-dropped-third-strike-and-third-strike-4thb-umpire-mask-rule/217966/8 "2003-12-11T00:45:33Z")
The “one base on dropped third strike” rule only applies if there’s no one on first already.
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### Author:  [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2003, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-dropped-third-strike-and-third-strike-4thb-umpire-mask-rule/217966/9 "2003-12-11T05:08:18Z")
On a dropped third strike, the batter is out if first is occupied unless there are two outs.
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### Author:  [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2003, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-dropped-third-strike-and-third-strike-4thb-umpire-mask-rule/217966/10 "2003-12-11T05:14:33Z")
Sorry, not only was that last post very unclear, I didn’t even mention that it was in response to **grem0517** ’s question. Let’s try this again:
> [@](#):
>
> _Originally posted by grem0517_
> Re: The Force Rule
>
> So why wouldn’t a team that had allowed the bases to be loaded with one out simply drop a third strike on the batter, pick it up, step on home plate and snap throw to third? Two outs, inning over. I can’t believe there’s not something that prevents this…
If first base is occupied and there are less than two outs, then the batter is out regardless of whether the third strike was caught or not. This prevents your scenario from taking place.
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### Author:  [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2003, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-dropped-third-strike-and-third-strike-4thb-umpire-mask-rule/217966/11 "2003-12-11T12:59:26Z")
**Rysto** and **jackelope**
Thanks for the clarification! Somehow I missed the two out caveat on the rule interpretation posted by DDG.
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### Author:  [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2003, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-dropped-third-strike-and-third-strike-4thb-umpire-mask-rule/217966/12 "2003-12-14T05:00:56Z")
Also the dropped third strike rule has been part of baseball for a long time. It’s been a feature of baseball since its inception, if you can figure out just when “baseball” started.
In baseball’s early days, it was not a given that the catcher would hold on to the third strike. Especially since the catcher wasn’t wearing a glove and was standing several feet behind the batter.
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### Author:  [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)
#### Post date: [December 15, 2003, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-dropped-third-strike-and-third-strike-4thb-umpire-mask-rule/217966/13 "2003-12-15T05:14:38Z")
Cecil revisited this question in [this column](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/000818.html). I’m surprised that they posted the old, now obsolete, version of the column.
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### Author:  [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)
#### Post date: [December 17, 2003, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-dropped-third-strike-and-third-strike-4thb-umpire-mask-rule/217966/14 "2003-12-17T19:06:10Z")
The dropped third strike rule is easy to understand if one looks at the original Knickerbocker rules from 1845 (generally considered the first written rules of baseball). Here is the relevant rule:
* * *
## 11TH. Three balls being struck at and missed and the last one caught, is a hand-out; if not caught is considered fair, and the striker bound to run.
If one goes back far enough in history, there were no strikes - the pitcher would keep pitching to the same batter until the batter put the ball in play. Swinging strikes were added to speed up the game, and called strikes and balls were added later (also to speed up the game). The idea was to force the batter to swing and hit good pitches, and to force the pitcher to throw good pitches.
In the days before gloves, the catcher would stand far behind the batter and catch the pitch on the bounce. With the 11th Knickerbocker rule, if the catcher caught the ball before it bounced it would be like catching a fly ball, and the batter would be out. When the catcher moved up close to the batter, almost all third strikes were caught before they bounced.
As others have noted, there is an exception to the dropped third strike rule when first base is occupied and there are fewer than two outs. This exception is to keep the catcher from getting an easy double play by deliberately dropping the ball. It’s similar to the infield fly rule.
The dropped third strike rule could be eliminated without changing the game much, but it’s been part of baseball for a long time, and no one seems to mind.