# What's the point of the (US budget) debt ceiling? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 30, 2021, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-us-budget-debt-ceiling/951655 "2021-09-30T13:08:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-us-budget-debt-ceiling/951655/61 "2023-05-09T20:21:45Z")
Bumped. An interesting approach: [Union sues to strike down US debt limit as default looms By Reuters](https://www.investing.com/news/economy/union-sues-to-strike-down-us-debt-limit-as-default-looms-3076259) ---
**Author:** ![survinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@survinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/survinga)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2023, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-us-budget-debt-ceiling/951655/62 "2023-05-10T23:05:12Z")
At this point, there’s no real purpose for the debt ceiling, except for politics. Congress already has authorized all taxes & spending, and the President’s DUTY is to honor those spending & tax laws passed by previous congresses. If Congress refuses to raise the debt ceiling, then they’re FORCING the President to break the law, either by borrowing more than the debt ceiling, or by not paying counterparties that he’s obligated to pay by law…So, there’s no actual governing point to a debt ceiling…but it has a huge political purpose. The political purpose of the debt ceiling is for Republican Congresses to attempt to hobble Democratic Presidents. When Congress and the White House are of the same political party, there’s no true controversy of the debt ceiling. Maybe some comments, maybe a speech or two, but the ceiling gets raised, as no party wants to be solely responsible for an economic calamity. If Democrats control Congress and the Republicans control the White House, Dems will make noise and there will be some speeches, but Dems want the social spending to continue, and they don’t want to blow up the economy, and the Pubs want to not blow up the economy when they’re in the White House. So, the ceiling gets raised. But when a Dem is in the White House, and Republicans control part of Congress, they use the debt ceiling as a political tool to HURT the POTUS’ economic program & performance. So, the ceiling gets raised, but only after very difficult negotiations and spending cuts. This didn’t used to be the case. But it was in 2011, and it will be again this year unless Biden is able to somehow “win” this standoff. I’d like to see the Debt Ceiling go to SCOTUS, as I don’t think it’s constitutional. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-us-budget-debt-ceiling/951655/63 "2023-05-20T16:13:07Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > …the President’s DUTY is to honor those spending & tax laws passed by previous congresses. The question I have is WHY won’t our presidents enforce this obvious constitutional mandate and instead let the country repeatedly get into this mess republicans create? Things like the trillion dollar coin have been proposed and yet the likes of Janet Yellen have said no to it. Why??? Is this repeated brinksmanship with the very real threat we all go over the cliff better? WTF? This is fixable and no one will fix it. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-us-budget-debt-ceiling/951655/64 "2023-05-20T16:18:44Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The constitution requires that congress authorize the issuance of debt. > > Before 1917, all spending came with a specific bond attached. There was no debt ceiling, because there was no “general” debt. If congress wanted to fund NASA, they would issue a bond specifically for funding NASA. > > Is that what you want to go back to? I don’t know what the consequences would be, maybe it would work out. I was reading this old thread and an idea came to me. Couldn’t Congress just pass a law that a priori authorizes any debt due to revenue not covering expenses? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-us-budget-debt-ceiling/951655/65 "2023-05-20T16:29:46Z")
They say no until the answer is yes. I think there’s a great chance Biden has one of these options in his pocket, he’s just not going to tell us until the last minute. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2023, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-us-budget-debt-ceiling/951655/66 "2023-05-20T16:35:20Z")
Sure they could, and they should. Either when new money is appropriated or when they pass a budget. But then they couldn’t have this brinkmanship. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2023, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-us-budget-debt-ceiling/951655/67 "2023-05-21T04:28:21Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I was reading this old thread and an idea came to me. Couldn’t Congress just pass a law that a priori authorizes any debt due to revenue not covering expenses? They have in fact done this several times, temporarily. Most recently from 2019-2021. 2021 was the first time there was a direct numerical increase of the debt ceiling since 2013. All of the increases in that period were done as suspensions that ended with automatic increases. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-us-budget-debt-ceiling/951655/68 "2023-05-22T02:56:35Z")
> [@survinga](#): > > The political purpose of the debt ceiling is for Republican Congresses to attempt to hobble Democratic Presidents. At least this time around Biden is aware of this fact, per this article from Yahoo News: > **[Biden says he won't agree to debt ceiling deal solely on Republican terms as...](https://news.yahoo.com/biden-says-wont-agree-debt-163153925.html)** > > HIROSHIMA, Japan — With less than two weeks left before the nation reaches the point where it can no longer pay its debts, President Joe Biden made it clear Sunday that he remains far apart from congressional Republicans in budget talks. The relevant section, from Biden himself: > “I think there are some MAGA Republicans in the House who know the damage it would do to the economy,” he told reporters. “And because I am president and a president is responsible for everything, Biden would take the blame. And that’s the one way to make sure Biden is not re-elected.” ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Tater](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/common_tater/32/13846_2.png) [@Common\_Tater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Tater)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-us-budget-debt-ceiling/951655/69 "2023-05-22T11:07:48Z")
As an aside, when was the last time Congress actually passed a budget, deficit spending or not? Seems to me they are these euphemistic named “Spending Package” or “Reconciliation” bills, or “Continuing resolutions” or somesuch. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2023, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-us-budget-debt-ceiling/951655/70 "2023-05-22T17:40:40Z")
The last time Congress passed the full federal budget without resorting to continuing resolutions and omnibus appropriations acts was 1997. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-point-of-the-us-budget-debt-ceiling/951655.md?page=3)