# What's the policy with gays in the military outside the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 7, 2005, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-policy-with-gays-in-the-military-outside-the-us/288785 "2005-02-07T08:47:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Paladud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Paladud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paladud)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-policy-with-gays-in-the-military-outside-the-us/288785/1 "2005-02-07T08:47:44Z")
Specifically in Canada, UK, Israel, and Japan? ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-policy-with-gays-in-the-military-outside-the-us/288785/2 "2005-02-07T09:04:58Z")
Can’t help you with those countries. This is how it is in Oz: > [@](#): > > [The Effects of Including Gay and Lesbian Soldiers in the Australian Defence Forces: Appraising the Evidence > September 19, 2000](http://www.gaymilitary.ucsb.edu/Publications/AustraliaPub1.htm) > > In November 1992, the Australian Defence Forces lifted its ban on open gay and lesbian soldiers. Using all available data from military, academic, non-governmental, and other sources, this report assesses the extent to which the lifting of the gay ban has affected the well-being and performance of the Australian military… > > While the lifting of the ban was not immediately followed by large numbers of personnel declaring their sexual-orientation, by the late 1990s significant numbers of officers and enlisted personnel had successfully and largely uneventfully come out to their peers… > > Complaints regarding sexual orientation issues comprise less than 5% of the total complaints received by the ADF of incidents of sexual harassment, bullying, and other forms of sexual misconduct… > > Current debates in Australia related to the policy change are now focused on extending equal benefits to the partners of gay servicemembers, rather than on the policy itself. To the degree that harassment issues continue to exist in the Australian Forces, most observers believe that problems faced by women soldiers are more serious than those faced by gay personnel. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-policy-with-gays-in-the-military-outside-the-us/288785/3 "2005-02-07T09:50:34Z")
The ban on gay recruits in the UK armed forces was lifted in, IIRC, 2000. ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-policy-with-gays-in-the-military-outside-the-us/288785/4 "2005-02-07T09:52:29Z")
Gay men and women may serve in the UK. I believe this came about after the government was found to be in breach of an EU anti-discrimination convention. After a 1999 ruling by the European Court of Human Rights, the government lifted its ban on gay military personnel. ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-policy-with-gays-in-the-military-outside-the-us/288785/5 "2005-02-07T10:16:55Z")
So that would suggest that there is not currently any restrictions on gays in other EU countries’ militaries? Oh, and an aside, is that the correct plural possesive? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-policy-with-gays-in-the-military-outside-the-us/288785/6 "2005-02-07T10:30:26Z")
There is no restriction in the Canadian Forces. It was lifted, IIRC, in the mid-90s. ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-policy-with-gays-in-the-military-outside-the-us/288785/7 "2005-02-07T10:33:57Z")
> [@flight](#): > > So that would suggest that there is not currently any restrictions on gays in other EU countries’ militaries? If I had to hazard a guess, I would say that the court’s decision is binding only on the British government, but it would appear to set a precedent for other EU nations. Two points, however: (i) the European Union Human Rights Act is incorporated into British law, which may or may not be the case in other nations; and (ii) to challenge the ban on gays in the UK military under EU jurisdiction, British plaintiffs had to first exhaust all British legal channels before proceeding to the European Court of Human Rights. This would be an expensive and time consuming process, so it’s perhaps possible that anti-gay laws in other EU nations have not been successfully challenged at this time. According to [this](http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/military_culture_eur.html), two EU members, Greece and Italy, still ban gays from serving in the military. There is some [suggestion](http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_mili.htm) that Turkey will have to repeal its laws which discriminate againsts homosexuals in the military before it is allowed to enter the EU (among other laws abhorrent to the EU, such as the death penalty). ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-policy-with-gays-in-the-military-outside-the-us/288785/8 "2005-02-07T19:31:59Z")
In 1992, the Ontario Court of Appeal ruled that the ban on gays and lesbians in the Canadian Armed Forces was discriminatory, contrary to the [equality clause](http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/const/annex_e.html#equality) of the _Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms_. The Federal Court apparently reached a similar conclusion in another case about the same time. The federal government did not appeal those decisions. On Octobre 28, 1992 the Chief of Defence Staff, General John de Chastelain issued a statement confirming that “Canadians, regardless of their sexual orientation, will now be able to serve their country in the Canadian Forces without restriction.” For a detailed review of gays and lesbians in the CAF, see this [web-page](http://www.clga.ca/Material/Records/docs/details/caf.htm). More recently, as part of the same-sex marriage issue, the Canadian Armed Forces announced that [gays and lesbians in the CAF can get married in military chapels by CAF chaplains](http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1106181280527_52?hub=Canada). ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-policy-with-gays-in-the-military-outside-the-us/288785/9 "2005-02-07T19:38:20Z")
In Spain, depending on where you live, you can get the government to pay for sex-reassignment operations. A soldier recently got reassigned female, while on active duty. The Army has been co-ed for about 15 years. Any further questions? (no link because the places I know where I could find a reference are all in Spanish and charge for “old news”) ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-policy-with-gays-in-the-military-outside-the-us/288785/10 "2005-02-07T19:38:32Z")
Israel has allowed gays to serve since the early '90’s. Japan simply ignores the issue altogether, far as I can tell. - Tamerlane