# What's the polite/original phrase for "Don't shit where you eat?" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 3, 2007, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-polite-original-phrase-for-dont-shit-where-you-eat/410372 "2007-07-03T17:47:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-polite-original-phrase-for-dont-shit-where-you-eat/410372/21 "2007-07-04T17:15:52Z")
My evil dad said, “Keep your dick out of the till.” Not very polite, though. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-polite-original-phrase-for-dont-shit-where-you-eat/410372/22 "2007-07-04T19:20:24Z")
[QUOTE=Dr. Drake] “It’s a dirty bird [indeed] that fouls its own nest.” There are a lot of versions of this one in a number of different languages. Though I wouldn’t be surprised if “don’t shit where you eat” is quite old. [/QUOTE] I asked the good folks over at the American Dialect Society for some help on this one. So far the best reply found the “don’t shit where you eat” from 1953(Saul Bellow). He also found a cite from 1937 which offered “…be sick in one’s own hat.” And the poster offered that he wouldn’t be surprised to see it originate in the birds/nest. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-polite-original-phrase-for-dont-shit-where-you-eat/410372/23 "2007-07-04T19:28:19Z")
And, by using Google Book search, the “dirty bird/nest/fouls” is found in the works of Thomas Chandler Halliburton." 1830’s. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-polite-original-phrase-for-dont-shit-where-you-eat/410372/24 "2007-07-04T19:59:50Z")
George Alsop, _A Character of the Province of Maryland_ (1666) “For its an ill Bird will befoule her own Nest.” This is its first American citation (from _Early American Proverbs and Proverbial Phrases_). There are several others from the 17th through 19th centuries. “Shit” is in the index, but nothing like the OP’s proverb is attested. (I am rather fond of “Claw a Churl by the breech and he will shit in your fist” [1674], which they compare to “Whistle to a Jade and he will pay you with a fart,” same source.) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-polite-original-phrase-for-dont-shit-where-you-eat/410372/25 "2007-07-04T20:13:00Z")
[QUOTE=AskNott] My evil dad said, “Keep your dick out of the till.” Not very polite, though. [/QUOTE] That’s the one I was going to post… ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-polite-original-phrase-for-dont-shit-where-you-eat/410372/26 "2007-07-04T20:15:08Z")
Further, according to John G. Kunstmann in “The Bird That Fouls Its Nest”: “the proverb ‘It is an ill bird that fouls its own nest,’ was first recorded in complete form in Latin by Egbert von Lüttich in verse 148 of his _Fecunda Ratis_. There it reads: _nidos commaculans immundus habebitur ales_… circa 1023 A.D.” (Southern Folklore Quarterly 3 (1939), p. 75) Several of the proverbs quoted use “shit” words: 12th century, _Progenies avium mala foedat stercore nidum_. (same source). Modern versions in many languages also have ‘shit’ words in the proverb. Incidentally, Kunstmann suggests that the bird that befouls its own nest is the hoopoe. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2007, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-polite-original-phrase-for-dont-shit-where-you-eat/410372/27 "2007-07-04T20:25:44Z")
[QUOTE=Dr. Drake] Incidentally, Kunstmann suggests that the bird that befouls its own nest is the hoopoe. [/QUOTE] No, no. It’s the gannet. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2007, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-polite-original-phrase-for-dont-shit-where-you-eat/410372/28 "2007-07-05T02:32:55Z")
Don’t dump where you hump. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2007, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-polite-original-phrase-for-dont-shit-where-you-eat/410372/29 "2007-07-05T04:15:21Z")
Don’t bite the hand that feeds you. Then crap it out later. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2007, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-polite-original-phrase-for-dont-shit-where-you-eat/410372/30 "2007-07-05T04:40:58Z")
[QUOTE=Dr. Drake] Incidentally, Kunstmann suggests that the bird that befouls its own nest is the hoopoe. [/QUOTE] The [Hoopoe](http://www.kenyabirds.org.uk/pics/hoopoe-a.jpg) _Upupa epops_ is notorious for the foulness of its nesting habits. From [here](http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/dspPlainText.cfm?articleId=14) > [@](#): > > Hoopoes are renowned for their stench during the nesting season, a characteristic that has earned them the moniker “stink cock” in Germany. The odor arises from an accumulation of feces in the nest combined with the foul-smelling secretion the bird emits from a preen gland at the base of its tail to deter predators. Hoopoe chicks defend themselves in the nest by hissing at intruders, then squirting liquid feces from their raised cloacae, striking unsuspecting trespassers in the face with remarkable aim. Few predators stick around for more, making the bird’s defense mechanism surprisingly effective. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2007, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-polite-original-phrase-for-dont-shit-where-you-eat/410372/31 "2007-07-05T23:29:02Z")
“Employees must wash hands before returning to work.” That one usually keeps the shit out of the food. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2007, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-polite-original-phrase-for-dont-shit-where-you-eat/410372/32 "2007-07-05T23:40:57Z")
One which doesn’t exactly fit, but this reminded me is, “You don’t stand _outside_ the tent and piss _in_.” ---
**Author:** ![cookeze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@cookeze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cookeze)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-polite-original-phrase-for-dont-shit-where-you-eat/410372/33 "2007-07-06T03:31:18Z")
Polite? “Be careful how you make your bed—you’re going to have to sleep in it.” ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-polite-original-phrase-for-dont-shit-where-you-eat/410372/34 "2007-07-06T03:37:24Z")
Don’t piss in the well. You’re going to get thirsty eventually. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-polite-original-phrase-for-dont-shit-where-you-eat/410372/35 "2007-07-06T03:44:05Z")
“Don’t bite the hand that feeds you” is somewhat close. ---
**Author:** ![Cagey\_Drifter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@Cagey\_Drifter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cagey_Drifter)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-polite-original-phrase-for-dont-shit-where-you-eat/410372/36 "2007-07-06T13:39:16Z")
Lather, rinse, repeat. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-polite-original-phrase-for-dont-shit-where-you-eat/410372/37 "2007-07-06T14:11:15Z")
I am, with all due respect to everyone, utterly astounded at the number of posters so far who don’t seem to grasp the situation described by the OP’s phrase. “Don’t fuck the help” is the dead-on. The politest version is Laura Holt’s from the 1st season intro to _Remington Steele_: “Don’t mix business with pleasure.” ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-polite-original-phrase-for-dont-shit-where-you-eat/410372/38 "2007-07-06T15:56:04Z")
[QUOTE=KneadToKnow] I am, with all due respect to everyone, utterly astounded at the number of posters so far who don’t seem to grasp the situation described by the OP’s phrase. “Don’t fuck the help” is the dead-on… [/QUOTE] This is a really good point, as I usually hear the proverb used to mean “do not sleep with your co-workers” rather than “keep your kitchen tidy.” So, metaphorically: Do not shit (= fuck) where you eat (= work). I still maintain that it derives from the “dirty bird” proverb, but you can tell a lot about our culture’s attitudes toward life by the metaphorical equivalents expressed in the current version. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-polite-original-phrase-for-dont-shit-where-you-eat/410372/39 "2007-07-06T16:35:54Z")
[QUOTE=Dr. Drake] I still maintain that it derives from the “dirty bird” proverb, but you can tell a lot about our culture’s attitudes toward life by the metaphorical equivalents expressed in the current version. [/QUOTE] There’s little doubt that you’re right about it’s origin. I was most impressed by your scholarship in your earlier presentation. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-polite-original-phrase-for-dont-shit-where-you-eat/410372/40 "2007-07-06T16:45:56Z")
> [@Dr. Drake](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by KneadToKnow > I am, with all due respect to everyone, utterly astounded at the number of posters so far who don’t seem to grasp the situation described by the OP’s phrase. “Don’t fuck the help” is the dead-on… > > This is a really good point, as I usually hear the proverb used to mean “do not sleep with your co-workers” rather than “keep your kitchen tidy.” So, metaphorically: > > Do not shit (= fuck) > where you eat (= work). > > I still maintain that it derives from the “dirty bird” proverb, but you can tell a lot about our culture’s attitudes toward life by the metaphorical equivalents expressed in the current version. With all due respect to \*\*Knead To Know \*\* and **Dr. Drake** , several of the posters who strayed from the “keep your dick out of the till” model were aiming at humor, after the OP had been adequately answered. On the other hand, “don’t shit where you eat” doesn’t easily translate to “don’t fuck the help,” unless you’re into coprophilia. In several works of fiction, DSWYE means “don’t swindle your co-workers,” “don’t steal from your own family,” and “don’t be vicious toward your relatives.” “_Do not shit (= fuck)_”?? Maybe _you_ fuck that way, mon ami. Not that there’s anything wrong with that… 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-polite-original-phrase-for-dont-shit-where-you-eat/410372.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-polite-original-phrase-for-dont-shit-where-you-eat/410372.md?page=3)