# Whats the possibility of me living to see a Muslim dominated Europe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 21, 2004, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-possibility-of-me-living-to-see-a-muslim-dominated-europe/260894 "2004-08-21T22:11:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2004, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-possibility-of-me-living-to-see-a-muslim-dominated-europe/260894/141 "2004-08-22T23:57:46Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I’m not making assumptions about anything, You just said " in the end we’re all Christian" - how much more of a sweeping generalisation could you make?! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-possibility-of-me-living-to-see-a-muslim-dominated-europe/260894/142 "2004-08-23T00:02:09Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I was brought up in the culture native to this continent, so I have might not of fought for my rights, but I can tell you now, in a Muslim dominated Europe, you’re damn sure I’d have to fight for my rights. So you keep insisting. > [@](#): > > Besides, we might have done what you’ve described, but two wrongs don’t make a right, where does it say that because my forefathers colonised and built an Empire, that we ‘owe’ it to them to come here and then impose their culture and traditions onto us? No, it means you should keep that in mind while talking about how backward and barbaric Islam and the Middle East are. > [@](#): > > Because they’re a minority! You must be joking. Not all minorities are liberal by any stretch. > [@](#): > > They do it to cover their own backs because they know that in any other more right leaning party, they won’t get away with it. You really should learn some history. I know more American than European history, but I know that in the last 100 to 150 years we’ve had the same kinds of complaints about the following groups of people: Asians, Mexicans, the Irish/Catholics, Eastern Europeans/the Jews, and blacks. And maybe a few others. Guess how many have taken over our culture and destroyed our rights. > [@](#): > > This is why tip toeing around subjects and not talking about it directly can lead to people going towards extremism itself. So they’re very subtle extremists? > [@](#): > > Its not an overgeneralisation, its a fact, sure, there maybe different sects, hundreds of them, but in the end we’re all Christian and share a few common beliefs and laws which are inheirent in our culture, this is why it is easier for them to intergrate, rather than Christian/Islamic. Actually there are thousands of sects. And tell the Protestants and Catholics in Northern Ireland how in the end they’re all alike and get on so well. Like **GorillaMan** , I’m not a Christian and I never have been. I consider that defamation of my character and I’ll thank you not to do that again. The laws that form the backbone of Western culture predate Christianity, and the civil rights that have made it great came as Christian dominance lessened. > [@](#): > > Yes because that is how you prove I am wrong, you just say it. Sounds like the majority of people here are in denial. Again, I’m not a European, but I felt the comment that there are no major conservative Islamic groups in Europe rather contradicts you’re point that they’ve come to impose their laws and take away your rights, when in fact they’re fighting for their own. > [@](#): > > Yes, and which one has made the loudest bang in recent years. Yes, that’s true. And? > [@](#): > > Never knew Islam was a race. I opted for racist over bigot. Care to refute what I said? I think it’s pretty clear in any case that you’re worried about people who don’t fit it physically. > [@](#): > > I don’t see why I should have to accept the possiblity of a Muslim dominated Europe? Your initial question was about whether you would live to see that happen, the answer seems to be that you won’t. > [@](#): > > Why should I just shut up and put up? Because you haven’t presented any convincing reason you should do otherwise? > [@](#): > > I’m proud of my culture and its people, why should I have to wait and see another set of people with a culture that is different and less advanced than ours take up shop? Being proud of your culture, even though you don’t seem to know what it is, doesn’t mean everybody else’s culture is an invading force you have to fight off. > [@](#): > > Nope, but most Christians have learned the error of their ways, can’t say they have. I humbly disagree. > [@](#): > > Don’t act so nieve then. I wasn’t kidding. **Don’t use insults you can’t spell.** It’s N-A-I-V-E. The word you keep typing is Spanish for snow. > [@](#): > > Yes, I could find a Muslim too who like secularism, Irshad Manji and Salman Rushdie, but they are few and far between. You keep asserting things like that. I’d love to see you prove it. > [@](#): > > Come on, are you telling me honestly that there isn’t a need for a large scale reform of Islamic thought and teaching? I would love for Islamic fundamentalism, along with Christian fundamentalism, to decline sharply in influence and in size. Unlike you, however, I don’t pretend to know the opinions of groups of people I’m not in contact with. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-possibility-of-me-living-to-see-a-muslim-dominated-europe/260894/143 "2004-08-23T00:05:07Z")
> [@](#): > > You just said " in the end we’re all Christian" - how much more of a sweeping generalisation could you make?! Well for the last couple of centuries, the overwhelming majority has been. I was making a point in where its easier for some people with the same values to intergrate more than those who don’t. > [@](#): > > They could come to accept it. Don’t forget, it was only four decades ago that homosexuality was illegal in Britain. Public attitudes, no matter what the religion, can change very quickly. Name a situation where Muslims have done this. I’m not saying they can’t I just want to see an example, maybe you’re right. > [@](#): > > Eh? Northern Ireland sectarianism and Basque separatism have been taken over by tree-hugging peaceniks? More politically motivated for reunification and rights or independence than religion. > [@](#): > > Yes, Muslims are expected to pay the money to charity. I don’t know where you get the idea that it’s a ‘tax’, anyway. It’s an obligation within their religion. Its a tax for non believers. Unless they agree with the Qu’ran? > [@](#): > > No. It proves that we’ve better ways to gain power over others - such as financial coercion. Still for the better though, it did lead to the diluting of organised religion within Western Society, its not happened yet in Islamic society. > [@](#): > > ??? Unless you mean politically-motivated translations such as the King James version, I don’t know what on earth you mean. ?? I said the Bible has been changed plenty of times, even by the Roman Catholic Church, but the Qu’ran hasn’t really at all been tampered with, sure there maybe different interpretations, but a no on can’t disregard the book at all or reject its teachings. Do you reckon the Qu’ran could be changed for politically motivated reasons? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-possibility-of-me-living-to-see-a-muslim-dominated-europe/260894/144 "2004-08-23T00:15:24Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Well for the last couple of centuries, the overwhelming majority has been. I was making a point in where its easier for some people with the same values to intergrate more than those who don’t. If you insist on describing a fictitious homogenous European society, then it follows that the description is of a well-integrated one. Shame it doesn’t bear any relation to reality. > [@](#): > > Name a situation where Muslims have done this. I’m not saying they can’t I just want to see an example, maybe you’re right. My point is that fourty years ago, I could say “name a wester society that has done this? Seee, there aren’t any, so it won’t happen.” You’ve zero evidence to back up your assertion that Islam-dominated societies are _automatically_ repressive of homosexuality. > [@](#): > > More politically motivated for reunification and rights or independence than religion. I wasn’t replying about religion, but about tribalism. Remember? > [@](#): > > Do you reckon the Qu’ran could be changed for politically motivated reasons? It can be _interpreted_ to defend the Burqa in Afghanistan, or female genital mutilation in north Africa, or any number of traditions that in fact predate Islam. It no doubt could be used in a similar way to the King James bible, to assert the dominance of the status quo and of the present leadership. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-possibility-of-me-living-to-see-a-muslim-dominated-europe/260894/145 "2004-08-23T00:18:28Z")
**On the question of taxes on Muslims and dhimmis** Muslims are obliged to pay the _zakat_, a form of compulsory alms to the poor (al Qu’ran 6:142, I think). It’s one of the “five pillars of Islam” and is a minimum of **2.5%**. It’s good to pay more, if you can afford it, though it isn’t good to publicize how much you pay. I believe certain people, eg the wealthy, face a de facto obligation of more like 10 or 20%. Dhimmis, Christians and Jews holding a kind of protected status in Islamic law, are obliged to pay the _jizyah_ (al-Qu’ran 9:29). It appears that this was later extended to non-dhimmis, like Zoroastrians, as well. The root of the word is _jaza’_, something like “tribute” or “compensation”, the idea being that Muslims were forced to contribute to society through the _zakat_, armed service and so on, so the dhimmis should have to contribute something to society as well. The exact amount that one was obliged to pay under the _jizyah_ is not known, but there are apparently suggestions in the hadith that it was **less** than the amount expected from the _zakat_. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-possibility-of-me-living-to-see-a-muslim-dominated-europe/260894/146 "2004-08-23T00:19:18Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Its a tax for non believers. Unless they agree with the Qu’ran? Didn’t somebody ask you several posts ago if you could find a country where this tax is actually in place? Did you post it? > [@](#): > > ?? I said the Bible has been changed plenty of times, even by the Roman Catholic Church, but the Qu’ran hasn’t really at all been tampered with, sure there maybe different interpretations, but a no on can’t disregard the book at all or reject its teachings. Do you reckon the Qu’ran could be changed for politically motivated reasons? Cite… ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-possibility-of-me-living-to-see-a-muslim-dominated-europe/260894/147 "2004-08-23T00:20:11Z")
> [@](#): > > So you keep insisting. Yes and I will keep on insisting. > [@](#): > > No, it means you should keep that in mind while talking about how backward and barbaric Islam and the Middle East are. Ok, maybe I have given off the wrong impression and if I did I apologise. What I am getting at is that European Culture is different to Islamic Culture, where as we’ve progressed in rights and individualism, can you say the same for them? Hey, I’m not saying that its an impossibility for them to progress to our standard, just that it would be centuries before that occured, and alot of death and protesting all over again at a religion which would be practised in a way which oppresses peoples rights in the name of God. So, I live in Europe, I kinda like the environment, and the staus quo of the surroundings, I don’t want it to change within my lifetime, and to find out my people are on the decline and are being replaced. You think of that, how would you like it? > [@](#): > > You must be joking. Not all minorities are liberal by any stretch. Thats what I’m getting at, but some support them, because they’ll give them more fair treatment than a conservative or even just a mainstream party. > [@](#): > > Again, I’m not a European, but I felt the comment that there are no major conservative Islamic groups in Europe rather contradicts you’re point that they’ve come to impose their laws and take away your rights, when in fact they’re fighting for their own. Not really, because what I’m saying is that if they become the majority, we’ll see more Muslim representation and parties fighting for their causes than we see now. Besides, you’re not European which makes you kind of biased. Its easy to label me a racist predujice whatever, but ok to understand every other civilisation or culture wanting to protect their people, etc. I’m just doing the same. I’m proud of my people and culture why should I want it to change? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-possibility-of-me-living-to-see-a-muslim-dominated-europe/260894/148 "2004-08-23T00:28:05Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > What I am getting at is that European Culture is different to Islamic Culture, where as we’ve progressed in rights and individualism, can you say the same for them? No, I can’t. You draw a ton of conclusions from there, mostly about how Islamic culture won’t change, that I think are baseless. > [@](#): > > So, I live in Europe, I kinda like the environment, and the staus quo of the surroundings, I don’t want it to change within my lifetime, and to find out my people are on the decline and are being replaced. As if to back up what I said earlier, now you’re talking about “your _people_,” meaning people who look like you. I thought this was about your rights or your culture or some other high-minded thing? > [@](#): > > You think of that, how would you like it? White people won’t be a majority in the United States for too much longer, and I don’t give a shit. > [@](#): > > Thats what I’m getting at, but some support them, because they’ll give them more fair treatment than a conservative or even just a mainstream party. Oh no, not fair treatment! > [@](#): > > Besides, you’re not European which makes you kind of biased. I don’t think you should be calling other people biased at this point. > [@](#): > > Its easy to label me a racist predujice whatever Only because it’s true. > [@](#): > > but ok to understand every other civilisation or culture wanting to protect their people, etc. Bull. > [@](#): > > I’m proud of my people and culture why should I want it to change? Because you act like your culture is superior and that you own it, and because you own your culture and your country you have the right to prevent it from changing. It’s impossible and silly. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-possibility-of-me-living-to-see-a-muslim-dominated-europe/260894/149 "2004-08-23T00:28:54Z")
> [@](#): > > My point is that fourty years ago, I could say “name a wester society that has done this? Seee, there aren’t any, so it won’t happen.” You’ve zero evidence to back up your assertion that Islam-dominated societies are automatically repressive of homosexuality. 40 years ago? In the midst of the sexual revolution, erm ok :rolleyes: The Egyptian government doesn’t imprison Homosexuals then? Or everyother government in the Middle East. > [@](#): > > If you insist on describing a fictitious homogenous European society, then it follows that the description is of a well-integrated one. Shame it doesn’t bear any relation So the European Union doesn’t exist then? We’ve been through so much crap about religion and tribal and ethnic hatred in Western Europe that it doesn’t happen on the scale like in other parts of the world anymore. We’ve pretty much learned, others haven’t so well. So yes, Europeans have become intergrated well with other Europeans, barring Yugoslavia. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-possibility-of-me-living-to-see-a-muslim-dominated-europe/260894/150 "2004-08-23T00:37:23Z")
**Ryan\_Liam** , you’ve been asked for a couple of cites and you haven’t bothered to find them- could you, please? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-possibility-of-me-living-to-see-a-muslim-dominated-europe/260894/151 "2004-08-23T00:37:40Z")
> [@](#): > > As if to back up what I said earlier, now you’re talking about “your people,” meaning people who look like you. I thought this was about your rights or your culture or some other high-minded thing? No, my people as in people who don’t follow the Islamic faith. And yeah, it is. > [@](#): > > No, I can’t. You draw a ton of conclusions from there, mostly about how Islamic culture won’t change, that I think are baseless. Show me examples where Islam has comprmised on certain laws and agreements? > [@](#): > > White people won’t be a majority in the United States for too much longer, and I don’t give a shit. Its not about race, but culture. > [@](#): > > Oh no, not fair treatment! ever heard how people can be opportunistic? Just because its a liberal party doesn’t mean everyone won’t exploit it to achieve its own aims. > [@](#): > > I don’t think you should be calling other people biased at this point. Ok fair point, but I am going to call out that when people talk about non European cultures being exploited or in danger of being sidelined, thats ok, but if its us, cry racist! Cry predujice! > [@](#): > > Only because it’s true. Label me whatever you want, I don’t care. Brush me off as racist predujice if it easies your conscience, I still never want to see a Europe where Islam is the majority faith or cultural leaning. > [@](#): > > Because you act like your culture is superior and that you own it, and because you own your culture and your country you have the right to prevent it from changing. It’s impossible and silly. :rolleyes: Nothing wrong in thinking my culture is superior, it will only be superior until others catch up. I have the right to defend it, just like everyone else does. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-possibility-of-me-living-to-see-a-muslim-dominated-europe/260894/152 "2004-08-23T00:40:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Ryan\_Liam, you’ve been asked for a couple of cites and you haven’t bothered to find them- could you, please? What for? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-possibility-of-me-living-to-see-a-muslim-dominated-europe/260894/153 "2004-08-23T00:44:36Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > 40 years ago? In the midst of the sexual revolution, erm ok :rolleyes: Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr…that’s PRECISELY my point, that you insist Islamic cultures would need centuries to change, while the evidence right in front of you is that any culture can change rapidly and unpredictably. > [@](#): > > So the European Union doesn’t exist then? We’ve been through so much crap about religion and tribal and ethnic hatred in Western Europe that it doesn’t happen on the scale like in other parts of the world anymore. We’ve pretty much learned, others haven’t so well. So yes, Europeans have become intergrated well with other Europeans, barring Yugoslavia. NORTHERN ISLAND AND THE BASQUE COUNTRY. You’ve ignored them once, why ignore them again? > [@](#): > > No, my people as in people who don’t follow the Islamic faith. And yeah, it is. So ‘your people’ include Christians of all denominations, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, atheists, neo-pagans of all kinds, followers of African traditional religions…quite a pool you’re drawing on there. Don’t be so arrogant. Oh, fuck it. You’re not listening to anything said - you either ignore it, or switch between ‘religion’ and ‘culture’ unpredictably and unnecessarily. You constantly present your opinions, and then extrapolate from them as if they were facts. I’m bored of this - bump this thread in a few years when you’ve grown up, seen more of the world, read a bit more, and talked to more people. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-possibility-of-me-living-to-see-a-muslim-dominated-europe/260894/154 "2004-08-23T01:02:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr…that’s PRECISELY my point, that you insist Islamic cultures would need centuries to change, while the evidence right in front of you is that any culture can change rapidly and unpredictably. Think how many centuries it took before that, plus economic stability and growth for that to occur. > [@](#): > > NORTHERN ISLAND AND THE BASQUE COUNTRY. You’ve ignored them once, why ignore them again? Still less than most of the Islamic world. > [@](#): > > So ‘your people’ include Christians of all denominations, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, atheists, neo-pagans of all kinds, followers of African traditional religions…quite a pool you’re drawing on there. Don’t be so arrogant. They are less inclined than Islam at the moment to incite violence. With the Exception of Christianity which has taken time to act more civilised. > [@](#): > > Oh, fuck it. You’re not listening to anything said - you either ignore it, or switch between ‘religion’ and ‘culture’ unpredictably and unnecessarily. You constantly present your opinions, and then extrapolate from them as if they were facts. I’m bored of this - bump this thread in a few years when you’ve grown up, seen more of the world, read a bit more, and talked to more people. Yes I am, I just find it strange that there has been so much disdain for me wanting to defend my culture, my society the way it is. I don’t see a problem in worrying about an outside culture (people who follow the Islamic faith) of becoming the majority and wanting to impose their values on us. If I knew it was going to cause this much comotion, I wouldn’t of started the thread. ---
**Author:** ![PaulFitzroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@PaulFitzroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulFitzroy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-possibility-of-me-living-to-see-a-muslim-dominated-europe/260894/155 "2004-08-23T01:04:08Z")
No, Ryan’s questions are basically being ignored and/or responded to by snappy one-liners rather than really taken into consideration and addressed with the seriousness that they deserve. May I ask, just because I’m curious, why so many of you are defending the Muslims and none of you have addressed their anti-Semitic attacks in Europe and the Nazi-like Jew-hatred that they are bringing back into full force? ---
**Author:** ![PaulFitzroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2acd7d/32.png) [@PaulFitzroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulFitzroy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-possibility-of-me-living-to-see-a-muslim-dominated-europe/260894/156 "2004-08-23T01:05:31Z")
[Even the dead are not safe from Arab Muslim hatred.](http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2004/WORLD/europe/02/19/europe.antisemitism/story.attacks.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-possibility-of-me-living-to-see-a-muslim-dominated-europe/260894/157 "2004-08-23T01:51:23Z")
[http://www.freemuslims.org/document.php?id=41](http://www.freemuslims.org/document.php?id=41) Thats to counter Sharia Law. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-possibility-of-me-living-to-see-a-muslim-dominated-europe/260894/158 "2004-08-23T01:53:46Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > No, my people as in people who don’t follow the Islamic faith. I’m not a Muslim and I wouldn’t call myself “your people.” > [@](#): > > Show me examples where Islam has comprmised on certain laws and agreements? The lack of any effort by Western Muslims to institute a theocracy, for one. > [@](#): > > Its not about race, but culture. All of the different groups I mentioned brought elements of their own culture, which, like I said, was assumed to be lesser than the ‘white’ or native culture already in place. Unless you’re saying Mexico, Ireland, Europe and China don’t have distinct cultures from what previously exited in America. > [@](#): > > ever heard how people can be opportunistic? Just because its a liberal party doesn’t mean everyone won’t exploit it to achieve its own aims. You’re again assuming what will happen without providing any basis for it. > [@](#): > > Ok fair point, but I am going to call out that when people talk about non European cultures being exploited or in danger of being sidelined, thats ok, but if its us, cry racist! Cry predujice! It’s because your fear that you will be sidelined is a crock of shit, **Ryan** , and your posts display a very strong prejudice against Muslims. > [@](#): > > Label me whatever you want, I don’t care. Brush me off as racist predujice if it easies your conscience, I still never want to see a Europe where Islam is the majority faith or cultural leaning. It’s easy to brush you off as a bigot when you make it clear that’s what you are. Scroll back through the last two or three pages and you’ll see several cite requests and other places where you’re asked to back up a claim, including a current Islamic country where non-Muslims are taxed for their religion and a cite for the Qu’ran never being changed. Likewise, **Paul** was asked for a cite about Muslim dictators enjoying wide popular support. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-possibility-of-me-living-to-see-a-muslim-dominated-europe/260894/159 "2004-08-23T02:06:47Z")
> [@](#): > > All of the different groups I mentioned brought elements of their own culture, which, like I said, was assumed to be lesser than the ‘white’ or native culture already in place. Unless you’re saying Mexico, Ireland, Europe and China don’t have distinct cultures from what previously exited in America. They don’t intend or have shown intent on destroying the West now have they? > [@](#): > > It’s because your fear that you will be sidelined is a crock of shit, Ryan, and your posts display a very strong prejudice against Muslims. I have disagree with them ever becoming a majority in Europe, that doesn’t translate into ‘death death death exterminate exterminate’ > [@](#): > > It’s easy to brush you off as a bigot when you make it clear that’s what you are. No it isn’t, you just brush me off as a bigot without engaging what I have to say, this has been drawn out so much and no one has really tackled what I said in the OP except ‘oh no Ryan said he’s goiing to use a gun’ :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Scroll back through the last two or three pages and you’ll see several cite requests and other places where you’re asked to back up a claim, including a current Islamic country where non-Muslims are taxed for their religion and a cite for the Qu’ran never being changed. Likewise, Paul was asked > for a cite about Muslim dictators enjoying wide popular support. [http://www.freemuslims.org/](http://www.freemuslims.org/) Maybe if more Muslims acted like this then there wouldn’t be a problem. But they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2004, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-possibility-of-me-living-to-see-a-muslim-dominated-europe/260894/160 "2004-08-23T02:27:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > …a cite for the Qu’ran never being changed. I don’t agree with anything **Ryan** ’s saying, but that one is part of mainstream Muslim theology. It’s written in the Qur’an itself that the book was God’s word, revealed to Muhammad via the archangel Jibrail (Gabriel) on a certain night, known as the Night of Power. A verse reads: “We have revealed it [ie the Qur’an] in the Night of Power.” (97:1). It’s worth noting that Muhammad himself never wrote down his revelations, and that the book was compiled (but not redacted) by the caliph Uthman, soon after Muhammad’s death. Since it’s been written down, there have been no changes - that’s a historical fact. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-possibility-of-me-living-to-see-a-muslim-dominated-europe/260894.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-possibility-of-me-living-to-see-a-muslim-dominated-europe/260894.md?page=9)