# What's the provenance of this photo of an enraged McCain? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 29, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-provenance-of-this-photo-of-an-enraged-mccain/454667 "2008-06-29T17:36:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-provenance-of-this-photo-of-an-enraged-mccain/454667/1 "2008-06-29T17:36:50Z")
I see [this pic](http://bp1.blogger.com/_Si25QRd1m_U/R7dhL7hhmAI/AAAAAAAAAC4/AXyy5ip17GM/s1600-h/20070716-McCain-Fired.jpg) or portions of it reproduced widely on a number of blogs, some of them conservative. [More examples are here](http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=mcCain+angry&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2). Where was the picture taken? Is there an accompanying video? Was McCain hamming it up? Was it simply a passing facial expression? Or is it a photochop? That pointing man looks a little suspicious. There are a number of videos [purportedly showing McCain’s temper](http://youtube.com/results?search_query=McCain+angry&search_type=), but none that I know of portray rage of this intensity. For completeness, I’ll offer a list of McCain’s [Top 10 Temper Tantrums](http://hyerstandard.com/john-mccains-top-10-temper-tantrums-of-all-time/). I also remind my readers that we are in silly season and that some incidents are likely to overemphasized and overplayed. [Then again, questions of temperament and impulsiveness](http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/03/06/commander_in_chief/) probably have their place. ---
**Author:** ![Madgolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Madgolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Madgolf)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-provenance-of-this-photo-of-an-enraged-mccain/454667/2 "2008-06-29T21:37:17Z")
That is George Bush in the foreground. From what I read, GW can make people write things as if they were making that face so I would say it is a normal McCain face and not a goof. It is from the 2000 debates, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-provenance-of-this-photo-of-an-enraged-mccain/454667/3 "2008-06-29T23:35:03Z")
**Madgolf** : Do you have a substantiating link or do you recall the source of your information? I’m having trouble tracking this down. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-provenance-of-this-photo-of-an-enraged-mccain/454667/4 "2008-06-29T23:48:19Z")
People need to quit acting like politicians are somehow gods that are above reproach and human behavior. If I was a politician, and someone was being an asshole, I’d tell them so. The biggest problem with politics in our country is the perpetuation of self-interest, a habit I don’t believe McCain is very fond of. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-provenance-of-this-photo-of-an-enraged-mccain/454667/5 "2008-06-29T23:56:46Z")
The guy in the foreground is on McCain’s lawn, isn’t it obvious? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2008, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-provenance-of-this-photo-of-an-enraged-mccain/454667/6 "2008-06-29T23:57:36Z")
I’ll observe that the appropriateness of McCain holding high office is grist for another forum. I just want to know about that photo: we’ll be seeing more of it I imagine. (On edit: wisecracks, on the other hand, are always on topic. 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2008, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-provenance-of-this-photo-of-an-enraged-mccain/454667/7 "2008-07-02T06:29:06Z")
Update: A reporter for the Weekly Standard reproduced the image on [their blog](http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/04/raw_politics.asp). Earlier, I had not come across this photo on a recognized media outlet. Also, I’ve emailed two bloggers and asked whether they know where the pic was originally snapped. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2008, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-provenance-of-this-photo-of-an-enraged-mccain/454667/8 "2008-07-02T08:31:39Z")
From the look of it, with McCain facing Bush on stage, each behind podiums, it may be from early 2000, when they were competing for the republican nomination. Didn’t they have some debates during that period, in New Hampshire and Iowa? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2008, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-provenance-of-this-photo-of-an-enraged-mccain/454667/9 "2008-07-02T10:13:19Z")
I’ve seen the photo before, but always assumed it was McCain making a phase for comedic affect, from maybe his SNL appearance or the Daily Show. I had always seen it cropped with just his face. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-provenance-of-this-photo-of-an-enraged-mccain/454667/10 "2008-07-02T19:18:29Z")
One Free Republic poster gives a history of the “McCain Grimace Photo”. I guess that’s what it’s called. [http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1964699/posts](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1964699/posts) There’s a problem. The author does not give a date, but a commenter notes that the February 16, 2000 McCain/Bush/Keyes debate, hosted by Larry King, had a very heated exchange. The NYT gives details here: > **[THE 2000 CAMPAIGN: THE OVERVIEW; In Hot Debate, Bush and McCain Collide Over...](https://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/16/us/2000-campaign-overview-hot-debate-bush-mccain-collide-over-campaign-s-tactics.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all)** > > Gov George W Bush and Sen John McCain lash into each other's negative campaign tactics in debate on CNN that also includes Alan Keyes; Bush accuses McCain of being first to break promise not to run negative advertising; debate, last before crucial... Ok. The problem is that the Grimace Photo has the back of somebody in a brown suit, pointing at John McCain. But during the Feb 16 debate, GWBush was wearing a blue suit: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Vkk3mhk3N0I/hqdefault.jpg "Governor Bush in 2000") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkk3mhk3N0I) Did GWBush ever debate McCain in a light brown suit? Might some doper inspect the photo for telltale photoshopping? I seem to recall seeing a webpage allegedly penned in 2000 which had the photo. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2008, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-provenance-of-this-photo-of-an-enraged-mccain/454667/11 "2008-07-02T19:26:22Z")
[QUOTE=Measure for Measure] Did GWBush ever debate McCain in a light brown suit? [/QUOTE] No, but he once shot an elephant in his pajamas. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-provenance-of-this-photo-of-an-enraged-mccain/454667/12 "2008-07-02T19:33:25Z")
Hey, I’d like to see **you** keep a serene expression right after learning that somebody had stolen **your** strawberries… ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-provenance-of-this-photo-of-an-enraged-mccain/454667/13 "2008-07-02T19:33:57Z")
What was the elephant doing in his pajamas? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2008, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-provenance-of-this-photo-of-an-enraged-mccain/454667/14 "2008-07-02T20:08:34Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] What was the elephant doing in his pajamas? [/QUOTE] Well, his trunk was full. Couldn’t put them there… ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-provenance-of-this-photo-of-an-enraged-mccain/454667/15 "2008-07-03T02:44:28Z")
[QUOTE=Measure for Measure] Did GWBush ever debate McCain in a light brown suit? [/QUOTE] “I growl at Bushie in the light brown suit…” Not campaign-song worthy? Darn. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-provenance-of-this-photo-of-an-enraged-mccain/454667/16 "2008-07-03T03:28:26Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] What was the elephant doing in his pajamas? [/QUOTE] Obviously, the tango. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-provenance-of-this-photo-of-an-enraged-mccain/454667/17 "2008-07-03T04:30:07Z")
I think that was actually taken in the debate that took place in 1938. That isn’t a brown suit, it’s a brown shirt. You can tell it is 1938 because of McCain’s youthful appearance. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-provenance-of-this-photo-of-an-enraged-mccain/454667/18 "2008-07-03T04:34:47Z")
Wisecracks aside, and its not my OP, but I’d certainly like to know where that photo came from. I sure hope JM was sneezing or something when it was taken. My guess re the brown suit is that the person in the foreground is a moderator at some debate. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-provenance-of-this-photo-of-an-enraged-mccain/454667/19 "2008-07-04T08:07:19Z")
Hey, the jokes are the only thing keeping this thread off life support. The metadata suggests that some of the images passed through Photoshop at one time or another, though that could have merely involved cropping or touch-ups. I speculate that Mr. Brown Suit at least was tacked on. How often do moderators actually point at their questioners? It’s considered a little rude. And it seems conveniently amusing that such finger jabbing would be combined with McCain’s comically enraged expression. Could any photoshop experts scan the pic for artifacts and the like? Frankly, when I blow up his face, I see evidence of some re-alignment. Here’s a jpeg of the enlarged image: I added an arrow. [http://wm54.inbox.com/thumbs/1\_130bbd\_39ec58\_oJ.jpg.thumb](http://wm54.inbox.com/thumbs/1_130bbd_39ec58_oJ.jpg.thumb)