# What's the psychology behind this? (Media not updating info on crime (ed. title)\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 10, 2006, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-psychology-behind-this-media-not-updating-info-on-crime-ed-title/363941 "2006-07-10T22:35:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-psychology-behind-this-media-not-updating-info-on-crime-ed-title/363941/21 "2006-07-11T04:08:34Z")
Is it too late to trot out the Vince Foster comparison? If not, that I’d like to go ahead and do that now. So, **Onna** , who killed Vince Foster? Oh yeah, and is Ken Lay alive or dead? And finally, what do you know about Elvis? ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-psychology-behind-this-media-not-updating-info-on-crime-ed-title/363941/22 "2006-07-11T04:36:59Z")
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner] Onatomatopeia writes: \> And as for the investigators, I find it extremely difficult to believe they could \> have overestimated the girl’s age by approximately 10 years by mistake . . . People make lousy estimates of ages all the time. When I was 35, someone estimated my age as 20. When I was 25, someone estimated it as 15. I’m sure that there are people who tend to get their ages overestimated. Please note, I have no idea what happened in this case. I have no idea what this girl’s real age is. I have no idea who is wrong about her age and who is lying. I have no idea about the competence and veracity of the investigators or the press in this case. All I’m saying is that it certainly is possible to get someone’s age wrong by over 10 years. [/QUOTE] I don’t believe a standard forensic investigation by a competent examiner, even a cursory one, would have yielded an age of 25 for a 14-year-old girl, no matter how mature-looking for her age she seemed to be, as these things are never determined by looks alone. In my view, either the rape/murder victim was 25 (or so) and the locals are exaggerating to foment the already-swelling anger over this case, or she was 14 (or so) and the US military and investigators are complicit in perpetrating a coverup as damage control. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-psychology-behind-this-media-not-updating-info-on-crime-ed-title/363941/23 "2006-07-11T04:39:12Z")
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner] That’s what I get for not checking the spelling. Sorry about misspelling your name, Mr. O. Please pretend I wrote: Onomatopoeia writes: in the first line of the above post. [/QUOTE] Consider my disbelief, not to mention my astonishment :eek: temporarily suspended. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-psychology-behind-this-media-not-updating-info-on-crime-ed-title/363941/24 "2006-07-11T04:45:19Z")
[QUOTE=threemae] Is it too late to trot out the Vince Foster comparison? If not, that I’d like to go ahead and do that now. So, **Onna** , who killed Vince Foster? Oh yeah, and is Ken Lay alive or dead? And finally, what do you know about Elvis? [/QUOTE] Vince? He’s alive and living the carefree life of a fisherman in the Florida Keys. Ken Lay? Alive and hiding under his bed. His wife told the police he was a huge dust bunny. Elvis? Come on! Now you’re just being obtuse. Everyone knows Elvis is alive. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-psychology-behind-this-media-not-updating-info-on-crime-ed-title/363941/25 "2006-07-11T05:02:05Z")
[QUOTE=Onomatopoeia] I don’t believe a standard forensic investigation by a competent examiner, even a cursory one, would have yielded an age of 25 for a 14-year-old girl, no matter how mature-looking for her age she seemed to be, as these things are never determined by looks alone. [/QUOTE] And what evidence have you seen that the case is being handled by a “standard forensic investigator” and do we have any idea how many "standard forensic investigator"s are even plying their trade in Iraq? Beyond that, there is the issue regarding the trauma the body suffered when it was burned–an event that would make age identification a bit harder to establish before a thorough autopsy was completed. Despite what one sees on _Crossing Jordan_ or _CSI [city-name-here]_, actual forensics is conducted over days, not hours. If, a week from now, the U.S. was promoting the idea that this was a mature prostitute who was killed by locals who have attempted to blame U.S. troops, I could see being concerned. Getting this upset over the speed with which corrected details make it into the news as the story develops seems to me to be a bit of an overreaction. (Did you ever notice how many details changed as the stories of Jon Benet Ramsey or Chandra Levy or any number of murders in the U.S. were reported?) ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-psychology-behind-this-media-not-updating-info-on-crime-ed-title/363941/26 "2006-07-11T05:33:50Z")
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner] When I was 35, someone estimated my age as 20. [/QUOTE] When I was 17, someone estimated my age at 32. Wanna trade? 😛 - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-psychology-behind-this-media-not-updating-info-on-crime-ed-title/363941/27 "2006-07-11T06:12:56Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] That’s just a journalistic convention used to maintain an aura of impartiality. [/QUOTE] And, of course, to keep people from suing the shit out of us. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-psychology-behind-this-media-not-updating-info-on-crime-ed-title/363941/28 "2006-07-11T12:03:26Z")
Onomatopoeia writes: \> I don’t believe a standard forensic investigation by a competent examiner, even \> a cursory one, would have yielded an age of 25 for a 14-year-old girl, no matter \> how mature-looking for her age she seemed to be, as these things are never \> determined by looks alone. Who said that this age came from a forensic investigation? It appears to me that this guess at an age of 25 came from the confessions of the servicemen involved and from those servicemen who had heard the stories of the rape and murder told by those involved and who came forward to tell the military investigators. It’s possible to imagine someone grossly underestimating an age, as has happened to me. It’s possible to imagine someone grossly overestimating an age, as has happened to Tamerlane. It’s possible to imagine someone lying. It’s possible to imagine lots of things. Let’s hold on just a bit before we start to create theories about the prosecution of this case. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-psychology-behind-this-media-not-updating-info-on-crime-ed-title/363941/29 "2006-07-11T14:15:32Z")
[QUOTE=Wendell Wagner] Let’s hold on just a bit before we start to create theories about the prosecution of this case. [/QUOTE] Sage advice. To be continued then. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-psychology-behind-this-media-not-updating-info-on-crime-ed-title/363941/30 "2006-07-11T15:04:38Z")
[QUOTE=Tamerlane] When I was 17, someone estimated my age at 32. Wanna trade? 😛 - Tamerlane [/QUOTE] I’ve got you both beat. I’m 30. Last month, I was buying lunch, and the cashier reminded me that people 55 and older can get a senior discount. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-psychology-behind-this-media-not-updating-info-on-crime-ed-title/363941/31 "2006-07-11T15:25:29Z")
One of the people murdered was a six-year old girl (apparently the younger sister of the rape victim, although there were some initial reports that it was her daughter). There were a number of conflicting reports about the details at first but this [Reuters](http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L10426381.htm) page seems to have nailed some things down pretty well. The victims were the rape victim, her parents and her sister: > [@](#): > > THE PROSECUTION CASE > > – Green and three others drank alcohol, in violation of a standing general order in Iraq, as they discussed raping Abeer on March 11. Shortly afterward at least two changed into dark civilian clothes, another violation, and the four went off armed leaving a fifth soldier manning the radio at their checkpoint. > > – At the house 200 metres away, Green who had been inside before and wore a T-shirt over his face, went into a room with the parents and child. Another soldier threw Abeer to the floor. > > – Green shot the parents and child with the father’s AK-47 rifle, then the second soldier and Green raped Abeer on the floor before Green shot her several times. The two other soldiers at the house say they did not take part in these acts. These are Manson-like atrocities. None of these guys should ever see the sun again (and it means nothing to me if a couple of them just watched…they’re every bit as guilty as far as I’m concerned). No punishment can fit these crimes but I can certainly sympathize with an argument that we should just disown these scumbags as Americans and turn them over to the Iraqis. ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-psychology-behind-this-media-not-updating-info-on-crime-ed-title/363941/32 "2006-07-11T18:23:02Z")
First, on the OP: With more than 20 years in American journalism, I can attest that inertia will cause a mistake like this to be duplicated throughout the media. It’s basically laziness combined with incredible pressure to be first with the newest, but little incentive to go back and correct errors. The quote about incompetence is dead-on. The issue was raised about turning the GIs over to the Iraqis for judicial proceedings. I know this brings a lot of Americans right straight up for air, but I have to tell ya’, it’s not unheard of. The American who raped and killed the Japanese girl on Okinawa several years ago was turned over to the Japanese, and is in prison there now. I participated in the process to hand over two GIs to German authorities after they raped and slashed (but did not kill) two German girls in a park in Aschaffenburg in 1976. I think we have to weigh the diplomatic gains of allowing it against the welfare of the accused. Traditionally, I think nations don’t hand over their citizens to other countries if capital punishment is on the table. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-psychology-behind-this-media-not-updating-info-on-crime-ed-title/363941/33 "2006-07-11T21:50:42Z")
Editor and Publisher has a roundup of the age debate: [When Is a 14-Year-Old Girl a ‘Woman’?](http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002803062) It seems the debate part is over: > [@](#): > > Two days ago, Reuters and others news agencies produced proof that she was 14, based on a passport and identity card. Most news organizations then started calling her a girl – but some persist in referring to her as a “woman.” ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-psychology-behind-this-media-not-updating-info-on-crime-ed-title/363941/34 "2006-07-11T22:14:33Z")
This relatively minor aspect of the alleged crime once again reminds me of how we assign skewed priorities to certain atrocities. I do too but at least I realize it’s wrong. The biggest atrocity here is the alleged murder. The other crimes are piddling in comparison. If it were not for the genophobic culture of the West and the ME, the alleged rape would be “just” another instance of torture. And I doubt a 25-year-old would be much less affected by this situation even if it did not involve her death than a 14-year-old. I don’t think the way the media are treating this has anything to do with their attitudes toward the occupation, our soldiers, nor Bush’s handling of same. Keeping in mind that a balance of arguments does not always mean the truth lies somewhere in the middle, remember when right wingnuts were claiming the Abu Ghraib stories were exaggerated by the media to make Bush look bad? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-psychology-behind-this-media-not-updating-info-on-crime-ed-title/363941.md?page=1)