# What's the racket, financially, behind these anti-tobacco / 'truth' ads? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 6, 2017, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-racket-financially-behind-these-anti-tobacco-truth-ads/781515 "2017-03-06T04:05:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-racket-financially-behind-these-anti-tobacco-truth-ads/781515/21 "2017-03-06T20:50:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Propaganda doesn’t automatically = lies, and presenting your case before the public isn’t always “propaganda”. Have you seen the advertisements in question? For one thing, advertising _is_ always propaganda by definition, and furthermore, these advertisements include such honest, indisputable facts as implying shopkeepers will refuse to sell you a pack of cigarettes unless you give them one of your teeth. Maybe you think the intended _results_ of these lies are worth the lying, or that it just isn’t a big deal, but you can’t dispute that the lies are being told, on television, in return for money. That’s what advertising _is_. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-racket-financially-behind-these-anti-tobacco-truth-ads/781515/22 "2017-03-06T20:57:28Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Have you seen the advertisements in question? For one thing, advertising _is_ always propaganda by definition, and furthermore, these advertisements include such honest, indisputable facts as implying shopkeepers will refuse to sell you a pack of cigarettes unless you give them one of your teeth. > > Maybe you think the intended _results_ of these lies are worth the lying, or that it just isn’t a big deal, but you can’t dispute that the lies are being told, on television, in return for money. That’s what advertising _is_. You _actually_ thought that that ad was literally claiming that some stores demanded that you pull out your own teeth to acquire cigarettes?? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-racket-financially-behind-these-anti-tobacco-truth-ads/781515/23 "2017-03-06T21:12:07Z")
Also, I understand that anti-drug crusaders literally think that human brains look like eggs. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-racket-financially-behind-these-anti-tobacco-truth-ads/781515/24 "2017-03-06T21:16:11Z")
> [@Turble](#): > > For example: > > It’s more complex than “Tobacco is bad, m’kay” Yeah it’s complex, but “Tobacco is bad for you” is not a lie. It’s a simple scientific fact. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-racket-financially-behind-these-anti-tobacco-truth-ads/781515/25 "2017-03-06T21:30:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You _actually_ thought that that ad was literally claiming that some stores demanded that you pull out your own teeth to acquire cigarettes?? :smack: No, they just falsely depicted it. You don’t have to believe someone’s lies in order for them to be lying. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-racket-financially-behind-these-anti-tobacco-truth-ads/781515/26 "2017-03-06T21:36:56Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > No, they just falsely depicted it. You don’t have to believe someone’s lies in order for them to be lying. Uh, yeah. Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-racket-financially-behind-these-anti-tobacco-truth-ads/781515/27 "2017-03-06T21:46:17Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > > [@Czarcasm](#): > > > > You _actually_ thought that that ad was literally claiming that some stores demanded that you pull out your own teeth to acquire cigarettes?? :smack: > > No, they just falsely depicted it. You don’t have to believe someone’s lies in order for them to be lying. Were you disappointed that women weren’t falling all over you when you entered an elevator after bathing in Axe body spray? ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-racket-financially-behind-these-anti-tobacco-truth-ads/781515/28 "2017-03-06T22:02:23Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Were you disappointed that women weren’t falling all over you when you entered an elevator after bathing in Axe body spray? No, because I don’t believe blatant lies. Are you guys _seriously_ defending Axe body spray commercials here? Is _that_ your standard for honesty? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-racket-financially-behind-these-anti-tobacco-truth-ads/781515/29 "2017-03-06T22:07:28Z")
So let me get this straight: It’s 100% known that smoking kills lots of people. Some folks think this is a problem, and try to convince people not to smoke so they won’t kill themselves. And this makes those folks monsters, because… um… propaganda or something. But of course, the tobacco companies, who also engage in advertising, are perfectly blameless, because… um… actually, I’m not even sure what that part of the argument is supposed to be. Have I got that right? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-racket-financially-behind-these-anti-tobacco-truth-ads/781515/30 "2017-03-06T22:11:04Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > No, because I don’t believe blatant lies. Are you guys _seriously_ defending Axe body spray commercials here? Is _that_ your standard for honesty? When you saw that commercial about trading teeth for cigarettes, did you happen to listen to what was said by the narrator, or read what appeared on the screen? ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-racket-financially-behind-these-anti-tobacco-truth-ads/781515/31 "2017-03-06T22:22:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So let me get this straight: It’s 100% known that smoking kills lots of people. Some folks think this is a problem, and try to convince people not to smoke so they won’t kill themselves. And this makes those folks monsters, because… um… propaganda or something. But of course, the tobacco companies, who also engage in advertising, are perfectly blameless, because… um… actually, I’m not even sure what that part of the argument is supposed to be. > > Have I got that right? No. You don’t. First of all, I have no problem with anti-smoking efforts in general. I have a problem with blatant lying and psychological manipulation of the public. It’s far more widespread (basically all commercials are a form of psychological warfare), but I can call out particular offenders when they come up in conversation without distracting from the rest. And as you mention, these are the _same_ tactics Phillip Morris and co. were rightly reviled for! Advertisements claiming cigarettes were healthy and recommended by doctors, advertisements claiming all your friends were doing it and you’d lose social status if you didn’t, cartoons used to influence children. So turning around and saying “We’re doing the same thing, but our side is right so it’s okay” is not legitimate, ethical or moral. It isn’t that difficult to air established facts without fooling or manipulating people. If the “Truth” folks wanted to start being truthful, I’ll stop criticizing them. Until then, they’re just robbing one blatant liar to pay another one. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-racket-financially-behind-these-anti-tobacco-truth-ads/781515/32 "2017-03-06T22:31:52Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > > Were you disappointed that women weren’t falling all over you when you entered an elevator after bathing in Axe body spray? > > No, because I don’t believe blatant lies. Are you guys _seriously_ defending Axe body spray commercials here? Is _that_ your standard for honesty? Personally, I’m familiar with the concept of exaggeration in advertising. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-racket-financially-behind-these-anti-tobacco-truth-ads/781515/33 "2017-03-06T22:54:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **DrCube** : > > And as you mention, these are the same tactics Phillip Morris and co. were rightly reviled for! But it’s not the tactics that Phillips Morris and company were reviled for. They were reviled for the fact that they were lying, and that their efforts were killing people. The Truth folks are telling the truth, and saving people. Lying and killing is bad, truth-telling and saving is good. It’s not that complicated. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2017, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-racket-financially-behind-these-anti-tobacco-truth-ads/781515/34 "2017-03-06T23:41:33Z")
So who do the anti-smoking people kill? And give a cite. That they take salaries proves nothing. How can I know they are overpaid. As badly as a professional athlete? This whole thread does not belong in GQ. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-racket-financially-behind-these-anti-tobacco-truth-ads/781515/35 "2017-03-07T00:01:30Z")
This is like advocating giving Endangered Species Act protection to the polio virus … it’s nearly extinct in the wild … seriously, I’m perfectly fine with people lying to parents to get their kids vaxxed … ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-racket-financially-behind-these-anti-tobacco-truth-ads/781515/36 "2017-03-07T00:24:33Z")
Amazing. In the 1930’s, cigarettes were called “Coffin nails” 1950’s - “Cancer Sticks”. I remember the procession of tobacco company presidents/ chairmen before the Senate, all saying “I don’t believe smoking causes cancer”. You have to be a lawyer to note that they did NOT say anything about facts - they only testified as to their person beliefs. And still, in 2017, we have a tobacco shill shouting loudly about the murderous anti-smoking groups. Tobacco is over in the Western world. Last I heard, China was still a great market. Vaping is one of the most cynical products I’ve seen, and I’m 67. "You HAVE to let us sell nicotine - it is a health crisis! Save the poor smokers! This from a business who knew the real science long before the Surgeon General’s report, and has been fighting a rear guard/delaying battle for 60 years. For those who think it strange: a pack of cigs cost about 20 cents to make - the factories are 100% automated and have been since at least 1970. The retail price is all tax - that blue band across the top was originally a Federal Excise Tax stamp. If people will pay $8 for something which costs them $0.20, the room for profit is enormous. For everyone involved. This is why even the tiniest bodega/mom&pop/convenience store carries 100’s of packs of cigs, and, more importantly, why it is a big deal when a chain of stores drops all tobacco. Those storefront shops make their profits on alcohol and tobacco. i got to talking to a concessionaire 30 years ago - the 3 things she made sure she had: Pepsi Snickers Marlboro (box) ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-racket-financially-behind-these-anti-tobacco-truth-ads/781515/37 "2017-03-07T02:21:28Z")
Unless I am completely misreading Turble’s point in this bizarre thread, he thinks it’s just awful that there are people working to put the tobacco industry out of business. That to him is evil propaganda-driven McCarthyism, promulgated by people without ethics. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-racket-financially-behind-these-anti-tobacco-truth-ads/781515/38 "2017-03-07T02:27:06Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > So turning around and saying “We’re doing the same thing, but our side is right so it’s okay” is not legitimate, ethical or moral. Except they are right, and it is legitimate, ethical, and moral. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-racket-financially-behind-these-anti-tobacco-truth-ads/781515/39 "2017-03-07T04:11:36Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > This whole thread does not belong in GQ. Well, I asked the question because I genuinely wanted to know what their financial/profit motive was for running these ads. I don’t know how it got so off-track. ---
**Author:** ![Turble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Turble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turble)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2017, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-racket-financially-behind-these-anti-tobacco-truth-ads/781515/40 "2017-03-07T04:45:07Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Unless I am completely misreading Turble’s point in this bizarre thread, he thinks it’s just awful that there are people working to put the tobacco industry out of business. That to him is evil propaganda-driven McCarthyism, promulgated by people without ethics. You are indeed missing the point. Big tobacco is a lying, conniving, corrupt industry willing to lie, bribe, and corrupt otherwise honest researchers to make money … and tobacco control has become the same. The McCarthyism comment was not from me but from a professor at Boston University who worked for 25 years inside the tobacco control industry, fighting big tobacco. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-racket-financially-behind-these-anti-tobacco-truth-ads/781515.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-racket-financially-behind-these-anti-tobacco-truth-ads/781515.md?page=3)