# What's the real deal on female body hair? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 22, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-on-female-body-hair/434582 "2008-01-22T22:46:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sibyllavane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@sibyllavane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sibyllavane)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-on-female-body-hair/434582/1 "2008-01-22T22:46:50Z")
I read [this article](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_012.html) and found it informative and interesting, but it left me with more questions. The article says that it wasn’t until 1915 or so that women were expected to shave their underarms, because that is when fashion exposed them. But what about Victorian-era party dresses like [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Jeanna_Samary-Renoir.png) or the older dresses like [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:1799-Verninac-David.jpg)? Did these women actually walk about exposing their underarm hair, even in the ‘prudish’ Victorian era? Is it just the luck of pictures to never expose this area? And what about paintings? Classical-styled paintings of naked women don’t show anything except the occasional vague shadow that might be pubic hair. Was it, then, still an invention of the 20th century that women have no body hair? Where does the concept originate from? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-on-female-body-hair/434582/2 "2008-01-22T22:51:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Was it, then, still an invention of the 20th century that women have no body hair? Where does the concept originate from? Is this really such a mystery? Sure, women aren’t completely devoid of body hair, but they sure have much less of it then men do. Many men (myself included) find the general smoothness of female skin to be enjoyable to look at and touch, and it’s hardly a stretch that the attraction of smoothness of skin can be extended, albeit artificially, to areas in which women do have body hair. ---
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-on-female-body-hair/434582/3 "2008-01-22T22:56:41Z")
I’d always heard that the advent of the motion picture is what spurred women to shave as it looks unattractive on-screen. However [this site](http://www.quikshave.com/timeline.htm) says: > [@](#): > > Another marketing campaign around this time convinced the women of North America to shave their body hair. Notably, women in the other parts of the world do not engage on masse in this ritual. Even in French Canada, the habit is not largely undertaken. > > It all began with the May, 1915 edition of Harper’s Bazaar magazine that featured a model sporting the latest fashion. She wore a sleeveless evening gown that exposed, for the first time in fashion, her bare shoulders, and her armpits. > > A young marketing executive with the Wilkinson Sword Company, who also made razor blades for men, designed a campaign to convince the women of North America that: > > (a) Underarm hair was unhygienic (b) It was unfeminine. > > In two years, the sales of razor blades doubled as our grandmothers and great grandmothers made themselves conform to this socially constructed gender stereotype. This norm for North American women has been reinforced by several generations of daughters who role-modeled their mothers. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-on-female-body-hair/434582/4 "2008-01-22T22:58:00Z")
I don’t think a Victorian “lady” would raise her arms above her head for her underarm hair to be seen. But really, even if she had, it wouldn’t have occurred to her to be embarrassed by her underarm hair, because it wasn’t fashionable to remove it. That’s all it is - fashion. You might just as well ask why Victorian women didn’t wear shorts and tube tops. It’s not like they didn’t have the technology, it just wasn’t fashionable yet. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-on-female-body-hair/434582/5 "2008-01-22T23:10:02Z")
Both of the examples in the OP are French, and the French traditionally have not had as much distaste for underarm hair on women. Furthermore, an occasional outfit in “high fashion” would not have much impact on day-to-day grooming for women. If people saw underarm hair, therefore, they probably thought absolutely nothing of it. Underarm hair wasn’t an issue so Victorian “prudism” doesn’t come into play. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-on-female-body-hair/434582/6 "2008-01-22T23:16:50Z")
Seriously, I mean, I show the little fine hairs on my arms all the time. Nobody thinks anything of it, because it’s not fashionable to remove it. One imagines they looked at underarm hair the same way. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-on-female-body-hair/434582/7 "2008-01-22T23:19:20Z")
Possibly classical painters were influenced by much older classical Greek sculptural aesthetics which don’t show body hair. Re the 20th century I think it’s just some fashion fetish by women, and makes many of them feel daring and sophisticated, and enables wearing various narrow thongs and bathing suits that would not work with a full bush or treasure trail. I will admit that contemplating a woman’s rear end in thong can be a near spiritual experience. Despite what some women might think I don’t think men really care all that much about the hair/no hair choice down below unless a woman is completely unshaven or “hippy hairy”. Some light haired women can carry this off, but for dark haired women it can look pretty rough. However, there are some men who really dig the hirsute “gorilla my dreams” look. One thing I never realized until I saw some amateur erotic home videos posted to the net of near east - middle east men and women getting busy, is that many of the women are completely shaven under their chadors. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-on-female-body-hair/434582/8 "2008-01-22T23:22:37Z")
[QUOTE=astro] …One thing I never realized until I saw some amateur erotic home videos posted to the net of near east - middle east men and women getting busy, is that many of the women are completely shaven under their chadors. [/QUOTE] Don’t Islamic hygiene laws require both men and women to shave most/all of their body hair? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-on-female-body-hair/434582/9 "2008-01-22T23:29:33Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] Don’t Islamic hygiene laws require both men and women to shave most/all of their body hair? [/QUOTE] Only when starring in amateur porn. It’s in the Koran somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2008, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-on-female-body-hair/434582/10 "2008-01-22T23:30:01Z")
[QUOTE=astro] One thing I never realized until I saw some amateur erotic home videos posted to the net of near east - middle east men and women getting busy, is that many of the women are completely shaven under their chadors. [/QUOTE] It’s an Islamic requirement, although my understanding is that sugaring, sanding (with sand) or plucking is more common that actual shaving. ---
**Author:** ![nofloyd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nofloyd/32/2870_2.png) [@nofloyd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nofloyd)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-on-female-body-hair/434582/11 "2008-01-23T00:03:15Z")
[QUOTE=astro] Despite what some women might think I don’t think men really care all that much about the hair/no hair choice down below unless a woman is completely unshaven or “hippy hairy”. [/QUOTE] Agree. I thought it was big deal for men, but found out that men in my LTRs aren’t as hung up on shaved legs/armpits/wherever as I feared. I tend to get lazy in the winter and let it go for stretches at a time. Hasn’t been a problem. I have this idea floating around [did I read it somewhere?] that shaving body hair also makes women appear ‘younger’, more like a post-pubescent girl that men instinctively desire for their fertility. But dammit, women are _supposed_ to grow hair in those places - it keeps growing back. I guess I wish the culture would shift again, all that time wasted shaving year after year after year. This is turning into a rant. I’ll stop. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-on-female-body-hair/434582/12 "2008-01-23T00:03:21Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] It’s an Islamic requirement, although my understanding is that sugaring, sanding (with sand) or plucking is more common that actual shaving. [/QUOTE] “Threading” is a still popular traditional Middle Eastern technique but apparently used more for facial hair. [http://www.folica.com/Hair\_Removal\_Gu\_d1255.html](http://www.folica.com/Hair_Removal_Gu_d1255.html) (bottom one on chart) ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-on-female-body-hair/434582/13 "2008-01-23T03:59:38Z")
If it’s any help, when asked about the practice in the old West Germany the local national office help said that only three kinds of women shaved their legs and arm pits: movie stars, Americans and prostitutes. Not shaving apparently demonstrated that they weren’t any of those. The opinion seemed to be universal and was held by both the middle aged WWII widows and the smart young things just out of vocational school. That was in the early 1970s in a western backwater(Kaiserslautern). Things may have been different in the more fashionable cities and may well be different now. ---
**Author:** ![Testy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c37758/32.png) [@Testy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Testy)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-on-female-body-hair/434582/14 "2008-01-23T07:03:58Z")
OK, living in the Middle East and was married to an Asian for 22+ years so maybe I have some insight on this. 😛 The Arab gals tend shave for their menstrual period. I don’t know if this is a religious requirement or it just makes things easier. They tend to just keep it shaved since that’s easier than going through the itchy stage of having it grow back. Also, a lot of women here tend to have very dark hair and consider it unsightly. “Tarantula legs” is the term I’ve heard used. The Asian girls also tend to shave simply because they think it looks good and, since their hair tends to be very fine, it isn’t a hassle for them and they only need shave infrequently. Regards Testy ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-on-female-body-hair/434582/15 "2008-01-23T13:17:23Z")
[QUOTE=CarnalK] “Threading” is a still popular traditional Middle Eastern technique but apparently used more for facial hair. [http://www.folica.com/Hair\_Removal\_Gu\_d1255.html](http://www.folica.com/Hair_Removal_Gu_d1255.html) (bottom one on chart) [/QUOTE] Yep, it’s made its way to Chicago. Lots of places around where I live (which is not far from a large Indian/Pakistani community) offer eyebrow threading. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-on-female-body-hair/434582/16 "2008-01-23T14:02:40Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] It’s an Islamic requirement, although my understanding is that sugaring, sanding (with sand) or plucking is more common that actual shaving. [/QUOTE] A friend with Turkish roots explained that the ladies of the family would have regular get-togethers for plucking. Sort of like hen parties. At one of these, she told her grandmother that she was marrying an American. The old lady said–“But he won’t be circumsized!” The young lady almost said–“Don’t worry, he is.” The rembered that she wasn’t supposed to know that detail. And shut up. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-on-female-body-hair/434582/17 "2008-01-23T15:01:28Z")
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke] The young lady almost said–“Don’t worry, he is.” The rembered that she wasn’t supposed to know that detail. And shut up. [/QUOTE] How did the grandmother know (or get to think she knew) about the state of American penises? (And how did she get to that point without learning that most American men are circumcised?) Your friend could have saved herself by saying, “Don’t worry; he’s Jewish!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-on-female-body-hair/434582/18 "2008-01-23T15:13:46Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot] [Removal of body hair is] an Islamic requirement, although my understanding is that sugaring, sanding (with sand) or plucking is more common that actual shaving. [/QUOTE] I think this is more a cultural issue than a religious one. Can you cite the Islamic requirement? My wife is an Egyptian Muslim and I it is very prevalent in Egypt for women to remove body hair but I have never heard that it is a religious requirement. (In Egypt they do tend to use sugaring, basically using a slab of caramel instead of wax.) ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-on-female-body-hair/434582/19 "2008-01-23T15:24:38Z")
[QUOTE=CookingWithGas] (In Egypt they do tend to use sugaring, basically using a slab of caramel instead of wax.) [/QUOTE] A Sheena Easton song just started playing in the back of my head. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2008, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-on-female-body-hair/434582/20 "2008-01-23T15:41:43Z")
[QUOTE=CookingWithGas] I think this is more a cultural issue than a religious one. Can you cite the Islamic requirement? My wife is an Egyptian Muslim and I it is very prevalent in Egypt for women to remove body hair but I have never heard that it is a religious requirement. (In Egypt they do tend to use sugaring, basically using a slab of caramel instead of wax.) [/QUOTE] We can start with the easy one, the wikipedia article on "[Glabrousness](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glabrousness) ": > [@](#): > > Most Muslims believe that the Sunnah directs all adults to remove pubic hair, including that in the armpits and pubic area, as a hygienic measure. In Islam, removing unwanted hair from the body is an act of fitrah. Referring to this, the Prophet is reported to have said “The fitrah is five things: circumcision, trimming the mustache, cutting the nails, plucking the armpit hairs and shaving the pubic hairs” (Al-Bukhari and Muslim). Then, because wikipedia is never our sole source for good information 😉 , we can turn to [islamonline.net](http://islamonline.net) for [this opinion](http://www.islamonline.net/livefatwa/english/Browse.asp?hGuestID=5rzp72) from “eminent scholars and Muftis” (about 3/4 down the page): > [@](#): > > Wa`alaykum As-Salaamu Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh. > > In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. > > All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger. > > Thank you very much for your question. > > Removing unwanted hair from the body is an act of fitrah (natural disposition). The Prophet is reported to have said: “The fitrah consists of five things: circumcision, trimming the moustache, cutting the nails, plucking the armpit hairs and shaving the pubic hairs” > > It is a Sunnah to remove the pubic hair and hair under the armpits for the purposes of general hygiene and cleanliness. As for other body hair, if they cause a problem to the person, there is no harm in removing such hair unless this involves imitating women as the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) cursed men who imitate women and women who imitate men. Also women are encouraged to remove unwanted hair from their bodies. Also on that site is a [quote] ([http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503543336&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask\_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar](http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503543336&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar)) from Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi, former president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA): > [@](#): > > “All safe methods to remove unwanted hair from the body are permissible in Islam. In the past, Muslim jurists allowed the use of lime or An-Nawrah or some other depilatory agents; so in a similar fashion modern lotions (if they are safe for the skin) can be considered permissible. > > It is a Sunnah to remove the pubic hair and hair under the armpits for the purposes of general hygiene and cleanliness. Hair in such areas is considered unwanted. It is makruh to let them grow for more than forty days.” “Sunnah”, however, can refer to things Muhammed specifically said or did, or things which the people did which Muhammed did not forbid or gave tacit approval to. So that really doesn’t answer the question, I’m afraid. At the least, it’s not forbidden. At the most, it may be what Muhammed wanted his people to do. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-on-female-body-hair/434582.md?page=2)