# What's the real deal with PayPal? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 21, 2004, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-with-paypal/235551 "2004-03-21T15:55:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2004, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-with-paypal/235551/21 "2004-03-21T18:26:34Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > It is a standard modern American company run by “questionable people”. Did you know PayPal is owned by eBay these days? ---
**Author:** ![SavageNarce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@SavageNarce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SavageNarce)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2004, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-with-paypal/235551/22 "2004-03-21T18:27:54Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > Cynical much? Maybe, or perhaps we are talking different beasties here. In Canada, a “debit card” is the card you use to access your bank account, at ATMs and such. The card number, and the accompanying PIN, are a direct pipeline to your bank account. You can’t use the card without the PIN, so if I used my debit card to buy something online, I would essentially be giving the seller full access to my bank account - something I’m not really anxious to do. Using a credit card puts a “buffer” between me and my banking information, i.e. the credit card company. If the card is lost or stolen, it is easily cancelled and my liability is limited. And if I have a dispute with a merchant about a transaction, MasterCard has a lot more clout than li’l ol’ me. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2004, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-with-paypal/235551/23 "2004-03-21T18:37:29Z")
**SavageNarce** I don’t know the technicalities but here in Britain Debit cards are a lot like credit cards. They are visa or mastercard or whatever. And Correct me if I am wrong but they have the same levels of protection as Credit cards. You can use them without the pin number. As for the discussion about paypal. I have never been a seller so I can’t speak for them. As a buyer I have never had trouble, and I doubt many buyers would (if any). But I am only expressing an opinion and so you should not take my word for it. ---
**Author:** ![TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tellmei_mnotcrazy/32/3419_2.png) [@TellMeI\_mNotCrazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TellMeI_mNotCrazy)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2004, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-with-paypal/235551/24 "2004-03-21T18:48:25Z")
> [@Lobsang](#): > > **SavageNarce** > > I don’t know the technicalities but here in Britain Debit cards are a lot like credit cards. They are visa or mastercard or whatever. And Correct me if I am wrong but they have the same levels of protection as Credit cards. You can use them without the pin number. > As for the discussion about paypal. I have never been a seller so I can’t speak for them. As a buyer I have never had trouble, and I doubt many buyers would (if any). But I am only expressing an opinion and so you should not take my word for it. Here in the States, debit cards are much the same - they carry a Mastercard/Visa type logo, but are usually connected to your bank account. Depending on the issuer though, they may or may not have the same protections. I have two, one that I “load” with cash, basically a prepaid debit card, that has basically zero protection; none of the nice merchant dispute clauses, nor the limited liability ones. I also have a bank issued one, which carries the same protections as a regular Visa. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2004, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-with-paypal/235551/25 "2004-03-21T20:23:12Z")
> [@SavageNarce](#): > > Maybe, or perhaps we are talking different beasties here. In Canada, a “debit card” is the card you use to access your bank account, at ATMs and such. The card number, and the accompanying PIN, are a direct pipeline to your bank account. You can’t use the card without the PIN, so if I used my debit card to buy something online, I would essentially be giving the seller full access to my bank account - something I’m not really anxious to do. AFAIK, here in the U.S., debit cards can be used exactly like credit cards – that is, without a personal identification number. I’ve used my debit card many times to purchase online, and I was taken aback by your original comment in this thread: > [@](#): > > **Use the debit card for what? Buying groceries? Sure, go ahead. Buying stuff on the internet? Not if you expect to find money in your account the next day.** If using a debit card online is so risky, how have I avoided getting nabbed yet? Your quote made it sound like 1 in 2 debit-card users online got their accounts cleaned out. What would you guess the actual risk is … mathematically? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2004, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-with-paypal/235551/26 "2004-03-21T20:39:18Z")
> [@TellMeI'mNotCrazy](#): > > Here in the States, debit cards are much the same - they carry a Mastercard/Visa type logo, but are usually connected to your bank account. Depending on the issuer though, they may or may not have the same protections. I have two, one that I “load” with cash, basically a prepaid debit card, that has basically zero protection; none of the nice merchant dispute clauses, nor the limited liability ones. I also have a bank issued one, which carries the same protections as a regular Visa. In general debit cards will have less protection/dispute mechanism than credit cards. Some credit cards (AMEX comes to mind) are pretty good about protecting customers in disputes with merchants; in my experience, they’ll basically issue me a credit immediately on my say-so. Of course, “chargeback abuse” has become a real problem, especially on line (as some who have been in the seller’s shoes can no doubt attest), and even credit card issuers are under pressure to limit the automatic granting of credits for “disputed” transactions. As noted here, eBay own PayPal, and almost certainly structures the combination of eBay fees and PayPal fees to provide them with a suitable profit margin. The fee structure is essentially irrelevant to the buyer, and is a bit of a bait-and-switch for the seller, who sees the relatively low eBay listing/completion fee and doesn’t always think to factor in the additional PayPal fee that he will more likely than not incur. But, it’s still far better than TicketMaster and its multiple levels of “convenience charges” and “service charges” and postage charges. eBay really wants buyers to fund PayPal purchases through direct fund transfers (rather than credit cards) – but for my money, as a buyer at least, I’ll keep doing it through credit card in hopes of having an additional layer of protection. ---
**Author:** ![Hanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b3f665/32.png) [@Hanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hanna)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2004, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-with-paypal/235551/27 "2004-03-21T21:45:59Z")
I have also used debit cards online, no problems. If you are really paranoid, open a free checking account and just keep a minimal amount to cover your online purchases in it. Use the debit card attached to that account and if you do experience a theft, your rent, mortgage and grocery money won’t be lost. Seriously, I have a greater apprehension handing my credit card over to a waiter or waitress in a restaurant than I do giving it to PayPal. ---
**Author:** ![Bangiadore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5a626/32.png) [@Bangiadore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bangiadore)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2004, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-with-paypal/235551/28 "2004-03-21T21:55:42Z")
I started to sign up for PayPal once, but got stuck in some sort of a loop where I’d keep getting sent back to a screen that I’d just finished with, so I gave up. I’ve got two checking accounts at my bank – one in which I keep the real money, and one in which I keep little, like never more than a hundred. Both accounts have debit cards, and I use them different ways – the account with the small amount of money is for internet purchases. I’ve never had a problem, but if I did, I wouldn’t lose much this way. If I know I’m going to buy something online for more than is in the smaller account, I can transfer money immediately from the main account by phone. And the bank takes into account the aggregate amount of what you have in all accounts, so there isn’t a separate fee on the “little” account. Works for me, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2004, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-with-paypal/235551/29 "2004-03-22T04:12:58Z")
> [@Jeff Olsen](#): > > Did you know PayPal is owned by eBay these days? Umm, I don’t see what I said that deserved such an insult. Of course I do!!! Egad, it seems that all email sent via eBay contains ads for PayPal warning about the “dangers” (yeah, right) of other methods. eBay tried to take on PayPal with their own auction payment system, it didn’t catch on so they bought the competition. But the policies and fees were set up prior to the buy out and the same “people” are still running it. So the problems are getting worse, as they have less and less competition. Even Western Union seems to have nearly given up on their BidPay system. (A _much_ better way of auction payment.) Buyers love PayPal since they don’t have much risk. So sellers have to accept PayPal in order to draw in more buyers. If the buyers only understood TTNSTAAFL… ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2004, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-with-paypal/235551/30 "2004-03-22T04:49:36Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Umm, I don’t see what I said that deserved such an insult. Of course I do!!! Just checking. ---
**Author:** ![angelicate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@angelicate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/angelicate)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2004, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-with-paypal/235551/31 "2004-03-22T05:27:51Z")
> [@Another Primate](#): > > Only gripe I have: Changed my name three years ago, and they require copies of my divorce decree to change it! Shoot, the back account this is tied to has the new name, my driver’s license has my new name… can’t find my decree. Same here. I made my paypal account when I still had my maiden name, and now I have to fax them a copy of my marriage license to get my married name on the account. I still haven’t done so, and it’s been 3 1/2 years since I got married, and I haven’t had any problems getting the money to my bank account when ebay people pay me through paypal, so I’m not really worried. I’ve had hundreds of people send me money through paypal, and I’ve probably sent at least a hundred payments through paypal myself, and have never had a problem. I’ve heard horror stories abotu people having accounts frozen with over $1000 in them, but I never let mine get above $50 or so, so I don’t worry about it. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-with-paypal/235551/32 "2004-03-22T19:57:28Z")
Hang on a minute now … where are all the personal PayPal horror stories? Most of the responses in this thread have been positive. There seem to be some friend-of-a-friend PayPal stories, or other varieties of negative anecdote. But where are the direct testimonies of bad experiences? ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2004, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-with-paypal/235551/33 "2004-03-22T23:37:20Z")
Once you hit the $1500 limit PayPal imposes on unverified members, you can no longer use PayPal unless you become a Verified member, even if you never plan to use anything but a credit card to make your payments. And in order to become a Verified member, you have to supply PayPal with the account number and bank routing number for one of your bank accounts. No way am I giving out my regular checking and savings account information to them, and frankly it’s not worth the hassle to set up a separate bank account just for PayPal use, so once I’ve hit my $1500 limit that will mark the end of my PayPal account. They have my credit card billing information already; I see no reason why I should have to supply them with anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2004, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-with-paypal/235551/34 "2004-03-23T00:26:52Z")
**SavageNarce** , I just wanted to chime in on the debit card thing, as I think you’ve been misinformed. I’ve been using my (Australian) debit card on the net for over 5 years with no problems. I don’t have to give my pin to online vendors. It works exactly like a VISA credit card, and AFAIK there’s nothing to tell the vendor that it’s not a credit card. I’ve ordered books from America, DVDs from Canada and the UK and most recently I paid for my SDMB subscription with my debit card. Regarding PayPal - I don’t use it and don’t like it but it’s not because of fears regarding their security, it’s because of their excessive fees. ---
**Author:** ![dreamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@dreamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamer)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2004, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-with-paypal/235551/35 "2004-03-23T01:36:46Z")
> [@SavageNarce](#): > > I am also a PayPal user, and have had no problems, However, I took some precautions. I applied for a “throwaway” MBNA MasterCard (you know, the “you are pre-approved” offers you get in the mail). Since they said I was pre-approved, I gave them no personal information. They called and asked some questions, but I maintained that since they said I was “pre-approved” they must have all the information they needed already. They sent me the card, and that’s the one I use for PayPal transactions. I have locked the card away and never use it for anything else, so “bogus” transactions will be really easy to spot on my monthly statements. Excellent idea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-deal-with-paypal/235551.md?page=1)