# What's the real difference between O'Keefe and other media? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 11, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-difference-between-okeefe-and-other-media/574309 "2011-03-11T16:46:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-difference-between-okeefe-and-other-media/574309/61 "2011-03-12T06:56:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > [From Harshbarger’s report](http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/acorn_report_finds_no_illegal_conduct.php) Yes, because, as I mentioned they had issues with the audio in one of them. However, you’ll notice that Harshbarger freely concedes that the audio doesn’t deviate from the transcripts which he maintains is publicly available. Furthermore, that wasn’t from one of the juicier interviews, the ones that took place in Baltimore and Washington DC. Like I said, there’s no evidence that they altered the audio to make it appear that something was said that wasn’t said or to make it look like ACORN employees behaved in ways they didn’t behave. Furthermore, everyone should remember that ACORN fired several of the employees on the videos so they clearly felt the videos were genuine and did reveal that ACORN had some employees who behaved inappropriately. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-difference-between-okeefe-and-other-media/574309/62 "2011-03-12T06:57:26Z")
I just posted the cite that they overdubbed audio. Do you have a reading problem? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-difference-between-okeefe-and-other-media/574309/63 "2011-03-12T07:03:39Z")
> [@](#): > > The videos that have been released appear to have been edited, in some cases substantially, **including the insertion of a substitute voiceover for significant portions of Mr. O’Keefe’s and Ms. Giles’s comments** Emphasis mine. From the cited page. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-difference-between-okeefe-and-other-media/574309/64 "2011-03-12T07:06:11Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Twice now you’ve accused **Dio** of making homophobic remarks. Where is your evidence for this? Or are you just prone to making baseless accusations against your debate opponents in an attempt to portray them as somehow morally corrupt? Do you think it’s easier to win a debate against someone that can be portrayed as morally corrupt? Didn’t you see Dio’s comments? [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13561967&postcount=45](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13561967&postcount=45) > [@](#): > > He altered the audio. Learn how to read. Your boyfriend falsified the videos. He made it appear that people were saying things they weren’t saying. Get out of fucking la la land. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13561988&postcount=47](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13561988&postcount=47) > [@](#): > > The cite has already been shown. The little bitch faked the audio. He dubbed in new audio after the fact to make it look like ACORN employees were answering different questions thatn what they’d really been asked. Your loverboy is a liar and a fraud. Accept it. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13561999&postcount=49](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13561999&postcount=49) > [@](#): > > I didn’t say anything homophobic. I think it’s cute that you have a little crush. Don’t get your hopes up, though. His type despises Muslims. Those are all pretty clearly homophobic. Anyway, I do find it somewhat sad that Dio feels the need to use homophobic attacks after I showed that his claim that “ **He dubbed in new audio after the fact to make it look like ACORN employees were answering different questions than what they’d really been asked** ” was simply bullshit. Nowhere in the report does Harshbarger claim that O’Keefe dubbed in audio for the purpose of making it appear that ACORN employees were “answering different questions than what they’d really been asked.” All that happened was they’d had technical problems with part of the audio in one of the unimportant interviews which isn’t surprising considering what an amateurish operation that O’Keefe ran. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-difference-between-okeefe-and-other-media/574309/65 "2011-03-12T07:09:17Z")
> [@](#): > > **…including the insertion of a substitute voiceover for significant portions of Mr. O’Keefe’s and Ms. Giles’s comments…** I didn’t say anything homophobic, by the way. I said you were in love with James O’Keefe. I may be guessing wrong, but that’s not homophobic. And isn’t your whole religion homophobic anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-difference-between-okeefe-and-other-media/574309/66 "2011-03-12T07:09:38Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I just posted the cite that they overdubbed audio. Do you have a reading problem? And I explained why and you’ll notice that Harshbarger doesn’t accuse them of making it appear that ACORN employees answered questions differently than they actually did. You’re making a big deal over a technical glitch in an amateurish production and making assertions that ACORN itself isn’t making. You’re claim was that they dubbed in a new audio to make it appear that ACORN employees answered questions they didn’t and you were wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-difference-between-okeefe-and-other-media/574309/67 "2011-03-12T07:10:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > [From Harshbarger’s report](http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/acorn_report_finds_no_illegal_conduct.php) I retract my previous accusation. Sorry **Dio**. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-difference-between-okeefe-and-other-media/574309/68 "2011-03-12T07:12:48Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > And I explained why and you’ll notice that Harshbarger doesn’t accuse them of making it appear that ACORN employees answered questions differently than they actually did. > > You’re making a big deal over a technical glitch in an amateurish production and making assertions that ACORN itself isn’t making. > > You’re claim was that they dubbed in a new audio to make it appear that ACORN employees answered questions they didn’t and you were wrong. This is bizarre. How many times do you have to see the quote? How is “inserting a substitute voiceover” not dubbing? How is that a “technical glitch?” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-difference-between-okeefe-and-other-media/574309/69 "2011-03-12T07:14:17Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > I retract my previous accusation. Sorry **Dio**. Nothing to be sorry about. I should have cited it sooner, but I didn’t have time to sit down and do a search until I put the kids to bed. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-difference-between-okeefe-and-other-media/574309/70 "2011-03-12T07:15:55Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I didn’t say anything homophobic, by the way. I said you were in love with James O’Keefe. I may be guessing wrong, but that’s not homophobic. > > And isn’t your whole religion homophobic anyway? I’m actually not religious so I’m not sure why you’re making such a comment. Also, I’m a bit amused by someone who proudly proclaims he is a progressive is claiming the “whole religion” of Islam is homophobic. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-difference-between-okeefe-and-other-media/574309/71 "2011-03-12T07:18:50Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’m actually not religious so I’m not sure why you’re making such a comment. You have said you are a Muslim. Are you or aren’t you? If you’re not religious, you’re not a Muslim. > [@](#): > > Also, I’m a bit amused by someone who proudly proclaims he is a progressive is claiming the “whole religion” of Islam is homophobic. I have never in my life called myself a “progessive,” proudly or otherwise, but there is no contradiction betwen those two things anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-difference-between-okeefe-and-other-media/574309/72 "2011-03-12T07:22:46Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This is bizarre. How many times do you have to see the quote? How is “inserting a substitute voiceover” not dubbing? How is that a “technical glitch?” Sigh… They a problem with the audio for a brief point in one of the interviews which was largely inaudible so, they wound up putting in, for that brief point, a substitute voice over which was consistent with the “publicly available transcripts”(to use Harshbarger’s words). You claimed that they made it appear that ACORN employees answered questions they didn’t answer and said things they didn’t say. That is simply not true and nowhere in his report(which you only read because I made it available to you) does Harshbarger claim that O’Keefe made it appear that people said things they didn’t say. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-difference-between-okeefe-and-other-media/574309/73 "2011-03-12T07:25:55Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Sigh… > > They a problem with the audio for a brief point in one of the interviews which was largely inaudible so, they wound up putting in, for that brief point, a substitute voice over which was consistent with the “publicly available transcripts”(to use Harshbarger’s words). You keep saying it matches the transcripts like that’s meaningful. Transcripts of _what_? Made by _who_? O’Keefe never released the original, unedited video, so there’s no way to know what was on the original audio. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-difference-between-okeefe-and-other-media/574309/74 "2011-03-12T07:26:28Z")
I do find it weird that people have been obsessing over trying to prove that O’Keefe made it appear that ACORN employees said things they didn’t say and virtually completely ignored the much worse acts he did. Specifically, when he was arrested for entering a Senator’s office under false pretenses and the “prank” he set up for the CNN reporter. To his credit, Dio did refer to these. Instead, we’ve wasted two pages because I correctly pointed out Dio was wrong when he claimed that O’Keefe made it appear that the ACORN employees said something they didn’t say. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-difference-between-okeefe-and-other-media/574309/75 "2011-03-12T07:27:16Z")
We’re through the fucking looking glass here. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-difference-between-okeefe-and-other-media/574309/76 "2011-03-12T07:28:27Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You have said you are a Muslim. Are you or aren’t you? If you’re not religious, you’re not a Muslim. I did not realize that you were an expert on Islam and qualified to determine who is and isn’t a Muslim. For the record, the answer to your question is no. Lots of Muslims aren’t terribly religious, don’t pray five times a day, never go to the Mosque, and enjoy drinking beer, petting dogs, and eating bacon. ---
**Author:** ![Jared4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e68b1a/32.png) [@Jared4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jared4)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-difference-between-okeefe-and-other-media/574309/77 "2011-03-12T07:30:42Z")
Does anyone have links to the transcripts? I remember reading the transcripts from the full audio where he was talking to two women, and discussing his supposed prostitution operation and the employees still came off looking very bad. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-difference-between-okeefe-and-other-media/574309/78 "2011-03-12T07:39:23Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I did not realize that you were an expert on Islam and qualified to determine who is and isn’t a Muslim. Now you know. 😛 As a matter of fact, I probably know more than you think I do. > [@](#): > > For the record, the answer to your question is no. Lots of Muslims aren’t terribly religious, don’t pray five times a day, never go to the Mosque, and enjoy drinking beer, petting dogs, and eating bacon. In what way are they Muslims? In what way are YOU a Muslim. I would say that the minimum requirements would be that you have to believe that there is no God but Allah, and Muhammed is his prophet. If you don’t believe those things, you aren’t a Muslim. Do you believe those things yourself? If so, do you believe that what _al Hadith_ and _al Qur’an_ say about homosexuality are true. If you believe they are true, then doesn’t that make your religion homophobic? If you believe those books do _not_ contain truth, then it would have to follow that you don’t believe Muhammed was God’s prophet, and if you don’t believe that, you aren’t a Muslim, so why call yourself one? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-difference-between-okeefe-and-other-media/574309/79 "2011-03-12T07:44:10Z")
> [@Jared4](#): > > Does anyone have links to the transcripts? I remember reading the transcripts from the full audio where he was talking to two women, and discussing his supposed prostitution operation and the employees still came off looking very bad. I’ve already linked to Harshbarger’s report which was obviously written for the purpose of exonerating ACORN. The report makes it clear that as far as ACORN was concerned, several of the employees behaved badly and were fired. Also, they did visit a bunch of offices where they were basically shown the door or the cops were called. As noted, during one of the interviews, they had technical issue with the audio in one part where O’Keefe and Giles questions couldn’t be heard, so they dubbed in the questions later, but they never dubbed in answers by ACORN employees and Harshbarger doesn’t accuse them of using different questions. It’s also worth noting that during their visit to one of the offices, in the NY area IIRC, the video ends halfway through because their battery ran out. As you can see, Gilles and O’Keefe were a real keystone kops operation. That said, I’m not sure where transcripts are available. At one point, the full unedited videos and transcripts were available at Breitbart’s website, but I don’t think they are anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2011, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-difference-between-okeefe-and-other-media/574309/80 "2011-03-12T07:45:44Z")
So now you admit they dubbed in audio. And we don’t have the original audio, so we don’t know what the original questions were. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-difference-between-okeefe-and-other-media/574309.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-real-difference-between-okeefe-and-other-media/574309.md?page=5)