Can you link to that post? I lurves me the Ariel Atom. It looks like a blast. Have you seen this video of a modded 650hp Atom yet?
According to Click and Clack, resting your hand, even if you think it is lightly, on the gear shift will wear out… well I do not remember exactly what part, and make it likely the transmission will pop out of gear on its own as the car ages.
I love manuals and always buy them but with the institution of CVTs I do not think I can justify it anymore. They are more fuel efficient, faster, and require less maintenance. At this point driving a manual transmission is becoming an affectation.
From your experience with motocycles, you already know how to operate a clutch properly. That’s the hardest part. The transition to a car is easy. (I did the same thing as you - went from dirtbikes/motorcycles to a manual transmission car without any other training.) It takes some practice because you are using different body parts, but it’s more or less the same process.
A couple mechanical differences: As mention, wet clutch vs. dry clutch - don’t ride the clutch in a car as you might with a motorcycle.
A second difference is sequential vs. non-sequential gearboxes. The sequential gearboxes in motorcycles can take a lot of abuse. Namely, shifting without using the clutch is very possible, and it doesn’t pose much of a problem. If you try to shift gears in a car without fully depressing the clutch, bad things will (eventually) happen. As a result, shifting gears in a car is generally a slower process. Make sure the clutch is in fully before shifting, and take your time getting the feel of things before attempting fast, hard shifts.
Years ago I met someone who drove limousines (way) back in the day when they were equipped with manual transmissions. The standard, he said, by which limo drivers were judged was a shifting ability/technique that resulted in the passenenger not knowing when he changed gears. If you can do this, you’re doing it right.
When I’m not “having fun” with my manual transmission-equipped Challenger, I do test myself using this standard. Doing so is just one of the added enjoyments of manual transmissions.
BTW, when was the last time any of you drove a three-on-the-tree car? For me the last time was the late 60’s.
I drove a 3-on-the-tree back in '84-'86, but it was a '67 Dart I bought to replace my '73 Vega wagon POS. The Dart cost over twice as much as the Vega- $650!!
One of the keys too is when learning or getting back into driving a manual regularly is to use good habits from the start - not riding the clutch, downshifting for the right reasons, etc.
As you build up your muscle memory, you won’t be actively thinking about shifting/clutching. And if you have bad habits early, those bad habits will be built into your muscle memory.
I was being flippant, but I think my point stands. In product design, one thing you should avoid is needlessly doing something that works in a way the customer doesn’t expect. The big problem in this case is that 1) the bulk of motorcycles have wet clutches, and 2) low-speed clutch control (slipping the clutch) is taught as a basic skill when learning to ride. IMO in light of 1) and 2) BMW was dumb to move to a dry clutch unless they had a damn good reason. And if so, it was up to them to educate their customers on how to work with the differences.
something might work perfectly as designed, but if it gives the users an unpleasant surprise, it’s still the wrong thing to do.
One more thing…my Challenger is equipped with “Hill Assist.” The purpose is to keep the car rolling backwards when starting out on a hill. When you take your foot off the brake pedal, the brakes remain locked for maybe 2-3 seconds. Not knowing about this I stalled the car a couple times. It can be disabled, which I will probably do, but a new-to-stick-shift driver might find it helpful.
This is the way to do it. If you don’t downshift, your engine won’t have enough torque to accelerate and pull you out of a situation if something should come up.
FTR: I’ve driven stick shifts since 1982 when I got my driver’s license, automatic for about one year somewhere in the middle of that timespan, plus a few occasional rides. Manuals, not automatics are standard in Europe - where I live.
I was told to not worry about the dry clutch, because under normal riding conditions it should last the life of the engine. The lower weight and lower torque of the bike versus a car does make a difference in the wear on the clutch. The boxer engine does have a lot of low end torque, so riding the clutch at low speeds isn’t as necessary as something which will lug under 3000RPM. That being said, I certainly ride it when I’m creeping along in traffic. For very low speed maneuvers (such as the 180 degree turn I used to do to get out of my carport) I’ll use the throttle, clutch, and rear brake all at the same time. The biggest issue for me with the “dry” clutch, is it’s one more fluid reservoir which has to be drained and refilled on a regular basis.
So back to the OP, I go back and forth between a manual car and motorcycle daily, and it isn’t a problem. The only real difference, is, as has been said, not riding the clutch. I also hold the clutch in when stopped on the bike, but put the car in neutral. In both, I match the speed of the engine to the speed of the transmission when changing gears. Not only is that better for the mechanical parts, but also provides a smoother ride for the biological ones.
This is the first manual car I’ve owned, though I probably had a few thousand miles of manual experience before I bought it. It took me years to get to where the shifting was completely second nature, and it can be a pain in traffic, particularly in the mountains (not traffic in the mountains, is fantastic). That being said, I wouldn’t have wanted it any other way, and I’m glad I got the manual. My brother bought the same model car with an automatic, and his isn’t nearly as fun to drive.
Another data point with regards to the gas mileage of the automatic versus manual. My brother and I both have 2002 VW GTIs. He has a 5 speed automatic, and I have the 5 speed manual. I believe his 5th gear is a higher ratio than mine (his engine is at a lower RPM when cruising), to partly offset the weight penalty of the automatic and still get good gas mileage. At least, that’s what I’ve been told is the reason for the difference in 5th gear ratios. I get better mileage than he does around town. I believe that is mostly the weight difference, and that I can short shift, while he’s at the mercy of the computer. If I shift at about 2800 RPM, then the turbo never engages, which greatly reduces fuel usage. Depending on throttle input, his car seems to shift between 3200 and 4000RPM.
It’s a known issue with the LSJ throwout bearing, which GM dismissed as “normal vehicle function” until the last of the warranties ran out, then they came out with an upgrade kit (which gives you the LNF clutch). It seems to be a channel inside the trowout bearing (also called the clutch slave cylinder) which allows pressure to slowly equalize. It isn’t a leak to outside the hydraulic system, as no fluid is lost over time.
Here is a web site selling an “upgraded” throwout bearing (which looks suspeiciously like the stock LNF one), with a description containing “The factory LSJ throwout bearing bleeds off pressure when you press in the clutch.”
Here is a site selling the GM LNF upgrade kit for LSJ’s.
My site is http://www.atomacrossamerica.org. Most of the time it is a lot of fun. Sometimes you get soaked, like this. Here is a link to one of my YouTube videos of a bunch of Atoms crossing the Golden Gate Bridge, shot from my Atom.
Yes. I know a couple people who are capable of running that amount of power, though most have turned it down a bit - you can break the tires free in 4th gear, even on a 300HP one like mine.
The fastest Atom driver I know of has a 245HP car, and he did a 1:33.08 at Laguna Seca and a 2:07.00 on the full course at VIR, the first time he ever drove there.
I have similar questions in that I’ve never driven a car with a stick shift for a significant period of time, would be interested but nobody else in my family who serves as alternate drivers (wife, parents, in-laws, friends) know how to do so.
How do you NOT do it on a motorcycle, short of just not ever riding slower than 10 MPH? At those speeds you have to control with the clutch for a smooth ride. Using the throttle to control the bike’s speed from 0-10 MPH, as in congested traffic, would be very harsh.
Conversely how do you not “ride the clutch” in similar situations in a manual transmission car?
As someone who lives and rides/drives in NYC I have to say at least 15% of my riding time (not distance) is spent in first gear using the clutch to manage my speed, so I would naturally use the same technique in a car, unless given an alternative.
Talk harsh, do it on a bike with shaft drive, so you get the play in the drive bouncing you back and forth, as well as the play in the transmission, the uptake on the clutch, and the movement of the throttle…
I tend to use a few different methods on the bike, along with riding the clutch. First, I might go completely on or off the clutch, so I just coast for a bit, and then apply a bit of power to keep going. This isn’t coasting for huge distances down hill, more like 30 feet in traffic at 8 MPH. Being stop and go traffic, there’s a good chance that I’m going to come to a complete stop during the coasting phase anyway.
The other part of this is to leave a gap ahead of myself. We’re not talking 300 feet, but a big enough cushion that I can keep my speed fairly constant while the cars ahead of me start and stop repeatedly.
Really, I’m rarely in traffic that is moving constantly at 8MPH, even if the average speed is 8MPH. When I do find myself in a situation where I do have to travel at 8MPH steadily for a while (gravel, sidewalk, etc.), I just ride the clutch and don’t worry about it.
I drive my car pretty much the same way I described riding the bike. I use space as a cushion to allow the clutch to be all the way in or all the way out. I can cruise at 800RPM in 1st gear, and I’m not going terribly fast. On level ground it’s easy to let the clutch out to gain some momentum, and then put it all the way in and coast when my speed requires me to go below what the engine is happy with (as I said, I’m probably about to stop anyway). It can be tougher up a hill though. Sometimes you have to use enough power to go up, but also not let the clutch out all the way because that would be too fast. Leaving adequate space can really minimize the amount of clutch riding required.
For times in the car when I need to go very slow, but it isn’t stop and go traffic, I’ll just be at 900-1200RPM in first gear.
Around Christmas of 1995 -
It was a Left Hand Drive Dodge (if memory serves) pickup in which I drove 3 National Guardsmen from Christchurch Airport to their hotel 5 km down the road.
One other thing I like about manuals (currently I have an auto) is that the experience I have in them (aobut half of my cars) is the manual always feels “alive” through the backside, while an auto often felt “dead”.
I think there are some that are more eloquent that can explain it better, but the in a manual, the car always felt more nimble than an similar auto did…
Maintain a bit of distance between me and the vehicle in front of me, and coast while goosing the gas ever so gently, just enough to keep moving forward slowly.
About 1980 or so? I had a 1964 Ford F100 truck with three on the tree. I was teaching one of my little brothers to drive about then and the column shifter fell off. Turns out it was cheaper to put in a floor shifter so for its remaining days it had a three-on-the-floor.
Echoreply has it: let a cushion of space build up in front of you that comes and goes while you drive along with the clutch fully engaged and the engine idling. My car will do about 5 MPH in this situation, and IIRC my bike will do 6 MPH (according to the GPS). If/when the time comes for you to press/pull the clutch and come to a stop, wait for a gap to open up in front of you before you start moving again, then go back to full clutch engagement with the engine at idle.
Some crotchrockets do indeed have a hypersensitive throttle and a whole lotta power - but those bikes also tend to have wet clutches that tolerate slippage, so it’s appropriate to ride the clutch on those bikes.
I was told the reason for the top gear disparity between manual and auto versions of any given model is so that the folks driving the manual don’t have to downshift to get decent acceleration when in top gear. The automatic will readily downshift when you stomp on the gas (so as to allow decent accel), but it’s OK because it’s no extra work for the driver.
IMO, that’s just stoopid. If you know how to drive a stick, you know that you should downshift to get decent acceleration¹. That’s why I like to have a tachymeter on my dash, because I know where my car’s engine can deliver enough torque.
¹ Unless your car has a Diesel-powered engine instead of a gasoline-powered engine. My current car delivers enough torque for decent acceleration already at 2000 RPM and uses about 6.5 liters/100km on the highway 
But half the fun of driving a stick shift is when you’re on a hill to balance clutch and see if you can keep it from rolling back 