# What's the right way to pronounce the surname 'St-John'? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 6, 2007, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-right-way-to-pronounce-the-surname-st-john/394835 "2007-03-06T18:38:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-right-way-to-pronounce-the-surname-st-john/394835/61 "2012-09-12T12:08:47Z")
A couple of my friends who I went to grad school with and I were discussing the pronunciation of Brett Favre’s last name just last week. And our collective analysis was quite similar to **Colophon** ’s. In this example, we flipped the alveolar and labiodental phonemes over time to save energy. And it isn’t ‘lazy’ \; it is ‘efficient’ to blur pronunciations over the course of time. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-right-way-to-pronounce-the-surname-st-john/394835/62 "2012-09-12T14:01:17Z")
The Louvre, as in the gallery in Paris has the same unstressed “-ruh” (or, if you want to be picky, “ʁ”, which is a [strange Gallic guttural sound](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_uvular_fricative)) at the end, which is not a natural sound for English speakers. It also tends to be swallowed or dropped entirely, so the gallery is generally pronounced “Loov” in English. Likewise, it’s hardly surprising that “Fahv-ruh” has become “Fahv”. Americans may hear that as “Farv”, and think the “v and the r have been switched around”, but it’s just the way the back vowel is pronounced, as in “father”/“farther” (which sound identical in many dialects, as discussed in various sidetracks to [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=596976). ---
**Author:** ![Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4bbf92/32.png) [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heart_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-right-way-to-pronounce-the-surname-st-john/394835/63 "2012-09-12T15:18:56Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Likewise, it’s hardly surprising that “Fahv-ruh” has become “Fahv”. > > Americans may hear that as “Farv”, and think the “v and the r have been switched around”, but it’s just the way the back vowel is pronounced, as in “father”/“farther” (which sound identical in many dialects, as discussed in various sidetracks to [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=596976). But Brett has a dialect (as do most Americans) in which “father”/“farther” are very distinct, and he _doesn’t_ pronounce it “Fahv”. He says “Farv”, with a clear, rhotic “r”, as pronounced [here](http://www.misspronouncer.com/packers/favre_brett.html). Americans hear it that way because that’s what he’s saying. Says [here](http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_is_Brett_Favre%27s_surname_pronounced)… [QUOTE=Answers] In French, it would be “FAH-vruh” or “Fah-VRAY,” depending on whether the ending “e” has an accent aigu. But Brett Favre has explained that his family has long pronounced it “FARV.” He said the pronunciation is a result of his family heritage, which blends Cajun with Choctaw Indian. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-right-way-to-pronounce-the-surname-st-john/394835/64 "2012-09-12T15:23:02Z")
I’ve only known three St. John’s. The first two had it as their first name, and both used the sin-jinn pronunciation. The third had it as a last name and said saynt jahn. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-right-way-to-pronounce-the-surname-st-john/394835/65 "2012-09-12T19:31:21Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > A couple of my friends who I went to grad school with and I were discussing the pronunciation of Brett Favre’s last name just last week. After the way he played last season, here in Minnesota we pronounce his name _‘asshole’_. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-right-way-to-pronounce-the-surname-st-john/394835/66 "2012-09-13T05:04:23Z")
> [@Heart\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > But Brett has a dialect (as do most Americans) in which “father”/“farther” are very distinct, and he _doesn’t_ pronounce it “Fahv”. He says “Farv”, with a clear, rhotic “r”, as pronounced [here](http://www.misspronouncer.com/packers/favre_brett.html). Americans hear it that way because that’s what he’s saying. > > Says [here](http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_is_Brett_Favre%27s_surname_pronounced)… The point is, the evolution of the name makes sense. It was originally pronounced FAHVre, got elided to just FAHV, and then the long AH was mistaken to have an elided R, so it became FARV. Personally, I though it was just because the typical way that would be Anglicized, FAHV er sounds stupid. (See words like centre). ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-right-way-to-pronounce-the-surname-st-john/394835/67 "2012-09-13T05:34:56Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > I’ve only known three St. John’s. The first two had it as their first name, and both used the sin-jinn pronunciation. The third had it as a last name and said saynt jahn. Obscure Texas music legend Powell St John pronounces his name just as it looks. He came from Lubbock. I’d expect a Brit to use “Sinjin.” There’s a Beauchamp street in my neighborhood–it’s pronounced Beechum… ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-right-way-to-pronounce-the-surname-st-john/394835/68 "2012-09-13T14:58:18Z")
[Obligatory _Four Weddings and a Funeral_ YouTube link](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm0XqDm8Uh0) ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-right-way-to-pronounce-the-surname-st-john/394835/69 "2012-09-13T15:01:30Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > Fanshaw is only one of of many variations, including Feerstonhaw and Festonhay. Different branches of the family use difference pronunciations. (Oh, and FYI, Ukridge has a long U: Yewkridge, not Uckridge. Interesting. I am acquainted with someone who bears a shortened variant of the surname Featherstonehaugh; his vanity plate reads FANSHAW. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-right-way-to-pronounce-the-surname-st-john/394835/70 "2012-09-13T18:42:54Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > There’s a Beauchamp street in my neighborhood–it’s pronounced Beechum… Beauchamp is (almost?) always pronounced as Beecham/Beechum in English-speaking countries. It’s present in a few English place names, such as Shepton Beauchamp. Beaulieu, on the other hand, is pronounced “Bewley”, obviously. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2012, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-right-way-to-pronounce-the-surname-st-john/394835/71 "2012-09-13T20:15:53Z")
The Tibetan name bKra-shis is pronounced “Tashi.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-right-way-to-pronounce-the-surname-st-john/394835.md?page=3)