# what's the root of the whole "Jews have horns" thing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 1, 2005, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-root-of-the-whole-jews-have-horns-thing/287768 "2005-02-01T14:07:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-root-of-the-whole-jews-have-horns-thing/287768/21 "2005-02-01T17:51:26Z")
I don’t know about Moses, but if you want to see true Jewish horns here is a guide: 1. First meet a great couple, he’s Jewish (non-kosher, at least when it comes to pork), she’s non-practicing Catholic 2. Go to a Christmas/Holiday party at their new house. 3. Drink copious amounts of wine. 4. Ask the guy, seemingly, innocuous question (while looking at the little Christmas tree in the corner), “When are you opening presents?” 5. Watch horns rise from forehead, as he says, “I don’t practice Christmas.” 6. Watch horns recede as I say, “Fuck man, I am sorry. Of course, I knew that.” :smack: ---
**Author:** ![duality72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duality72/32/3910_2.png) [@duality72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duality72)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-root-of-the-whole-jews-have-horns-thing/287768/22 "2005-02-01T18:00:10Z")
> [@The Devil's Grandmother](#): > > Yes, but if you asked a non-Jewish person on the street to name a biblical Jew, you’d probably hear Moses, over and over again. There’s been big popular movies about Moses and very few about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Funny, I’m fairly sure you’d hear Jesus over and over again. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-root-of-the-whole-jews-have-horns-thing/287768/23 "2005-02-01T18:20:06Z")
> [@](#): > > The strange part is after living in Utah for a long time and then meeting with people who live in other states, the legend has also morphed into Mormons having horns. I have no idea why this is. Ummm…I lived in Salt Lake for four years, and before that shared an office for several years with an LDS, and I’ve _never_ heard this before. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-root-of-the-whole-jews-have-horns-thing/287768/24 "2005-02-01T18:23:05Z")
> [@duality72](#): > > Funny, I’m fairly sure you’d hear Jesus over and over again. When my dad was a kid, he got his ass kicked by his aunt for saying that “Jesus wasn’t a Christian!” ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-root-of-the-whole-jews-have-horns-thing/287768/25 "2005-02-01T18:27:18Z")
> [@Phase42](#): > > When my dad was a kid, he got his ass kicked by his aunt for saying that “Jesus wasn’t a Christian!” Was she a Nietzschean? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-root-of-the-whole-jews-have-horns-thing/287768/26 "2005-02-01T18:45:57Z")
> [@The Devil's Grandmother](#): > > Yes, but if you asked a non-Jewish person on the street to name a biblical Jew, you’d probably hear Moses, over and over again. There’s been big popular movies about Moses and very few about Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Technically speaking, none of those guys were Jewish. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-root-of-the-whole-jews-have-horns-thing/287768/27 "2005-02-01T18:55:41Z")
> [@duality72](#): > > Funny, I’m fairly sure you’d hear Jesus over and over again. Ask some people. The denial over the Jewish-ness of Jesus is amazing. **Alessan** , if Moses, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob weren’t Jews, what were they? Please take this as a serious question, because I’m confused. ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-root-of-the-whole-jews-have-horns-thing/287768/28 "2005-02-01T19:08:57Z")
> [@Exgineer](#): > > Call me stupid, but it seems to me that a misconception of this magnitude should have been pretty easy to clear up. Possibly my fault, on numerous occasions I have been heard to say, “I am so horny!” ---
**Author:** ![Martha\_Medea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/43a26b/32.png) [@Martha\_Medea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martha_Medea)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-root-of-the-whole-jews-have-horns-thing/287768/29 "2005-02-01T19:10:11Z")
Apparently some also believed that Jews had tails as well as, or instead of horns. My grandmother told me that while bathing my father when he was a baby, their new Spanish maid was surprised to find that he did not have a tail. This would have been the late 1930s. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-root-of-the-whole-jews-have-horns-thing/287768/30 "2005-02-01T19:22:18Z")
> [@duality72](#): > > Funny, I’m fairly sure you’d hear Jesus over and over again. Don’t bet on it. There are **lots** of people who are not aware that Jesus was a Jew. ---
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-root-of-the-whole-jews-have-horns-thing/287768/31 "2005-02-01T19:29:18Z")
> [@TV time](#): > > Possibly my fault, on numerous occasions I have been heard to say, “I am so horny!” Heh. Now that I think about it, the “Yankees have tails” thing enjoyed wide currency in the American South for a while, so I guess people can make themselves believe all manner of odd things. I’m still a little boggled by it though. ---
**Author:** ![deadeyesdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dec6dc/32.png) [@deadeyesdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deadeyesdad)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-root-of-the-whole-jews-have-horns-thing/287768/32 "2005-02-01T19:45:26Z")
> [@The Devil's Grandmother](#): > > Ask some people. The denial over the Jewish-ness of Jesus is amazing. > > **Alessan** , if Moses, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob weren’t Jews, what were they? Please take this as a serious question, because I’m confused. I think that Jewish in this context means those of the tribe of Judah. Abe Ike and Jake were Judah’s ancestors and Moses was a Levite. So if all the tribe stuff is true then all are Hebrews and Moses would be a Hebrew of the tribe of Levi. David would be a Jew, a Hebrew of the tribe of Judah or a Jew. ---
**Author:** ![Reloy3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c68b51/32.png) [@Reloy3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reloy3)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-root-of-the-whole-jews-have-horns-thing/287768/33 "2005-02-01T19:46:03Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Ummm…I lived in Salt Lake for four years, and before that shared an office for several years with an LDS, and I’ve _never_ heard this before. I’ve heard it, but always in the context that "my grandmother said . . . ". Nobody has ever owned up to actually believing it themselves. Me, as a prematurely balding Mormon, I would love to have something on my head. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-root-of-the-whole-jews-have-horns-thing/287768/34 "2005-02-01T19:53:59Z")
The definition of “Jew” before the Exodus is somewhat fuzzy. Generally, people regard Abraham as the first Jew (being the progenitor of the Jewish nation). That would make Isaac, Jacob, etc. all Jews. From a _halachic_ standpoint, the status of individuals before the Revelation at Sinai is a disputed matter. But all authorities agree that as of the Revelation the people present became Jews. Thus Moses, unquestioningly, was a Jew. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-root-of-the-whole-jews-have-horns-thing/287768/35 "2005-02-01T20:40:46Z")
> [@deadeyesdad](#): > > I think that Jewish in this context means those of the tribe of Judah. Abe Ike and Jake were Judah’s ancestors and Moses was a Levite. So if all the tribe stuff is true then all are Hebrews and Moses would be a Hebrew of the tribe of Levi. David would be a Jew, a Hebrew of the tribe of Judah or a Jew. That’s basically what I meant - except that Moses was technically an Israelite (_Ben Yisrael_), and not just a Hebrew. There were, presumably, Hebrews who were not descended from Jacob, although the Bible does not have much to say about them. The term “Jew” (_Yehudi_) does not appear until fairly late in Scripture - I’m not sure where it pops up first, but it’s definitely after I Kings, and possibly not before Esther (Is it in Jonah? I can’t remember). It certainly does not exist in the Torah ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-root-of-the-whole-jews-have-horns-thing/287768/36 "2005-02-01T21:33:43Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The term “Jew” (_Yehudi_) does not appear until fairly late in Scripture - I’m not sure where it pops up first, but it’s definitely after I Kings, and possibly not before Esther (Is it in Jonah? I can’t remember). It certainly does not exist in the Torah I’m not sure where _Yehudi_ first appears, either, but there is definitely a distinction between “Hebrew” and “Jew” as late as the book of Esther - where Mordechai is described as “_Ish Yemini_” (A man of the house of Benjamin) – which almost has to be in order to differentiate him from the scions of Judah – these were the two remaining houses (or tribes) by then, the events in Esther having taken place after the exile of the ten Tribes. Dani ---
**Author:** ![LorieSmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a587f6/32.png) [@LorieSmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LorieSmurf)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-root-of-the-whole-jews-have-horns-thing/287768/37 "2005-02-02T14:56:04Z")
I grew up in Oklahoma, major Bible Belt country. The only time I’ve ever heard the ‘Jews have horns’ thing was on an episode of Little House on the Prairie. I never knew it was a prevailing belief. People will believe the dumbest things. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-root-of-the-whole-jews-have-horns-thing/287768/38 "2005-02-02T15:20:59Z")
> [@The Devil's Grandmother](#): > > …you’d probably hear Moses, over and over again. Yeah, and it’d be said just like this : [Moses, Moses, Moses](http://charltonhestonworld.homestead.com/files/CH-Moses-Nefertiri-Color.jpg) ;j Seriously, it does not surprise me that the mistake in both grammar and the painting cited already have fed into this. To be fair all around, Jews have suffered persecutions since Day 1. It doesn’t take a genius to see why folks back then would put these together and make such blanket statements. Needless to say, I’m not condoning such blind sickening racism. I’m simply saying that it is not a stretch to understand how such a thing came about. Cartooniverse, whose family name is ridiculously Biblical. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-root-of-the-whole-jews-have-horns-thing/287768/39 "2005-02-02T16:38:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Cartooniverse, whose family name is ridiculously Biblical. 🙂 Heehee! Mine too! Maybe we’re related! I’m not really a grandmother. Thank you everyone, who answered my questions on when the old testament peoples became Jews. I had always assumed everybody after Abraham was Jewish, so I’ll try to keep the other theories in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2005, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-root-of-the-whole-jews-have-horns-thing/287768/40 "2005-02-02T17:04:54Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > I found out later that after I left, the new trainee asked her if my horns were hidden under my _yarmulke_. Oh, man, that is priceless. I just can’t believe people sometimes. So where _were_ you hiding them? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-root-of-the-whole-jews-have-horns-thing/287768.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-root-of-the-whole-jews-have-horns-thing/287768.md?page=3)